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What Would You Do? New twist on an old argument....Follow

#1 Nov 15 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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You're pregnant with a planned and wanted child. On your physicians advice you have the new test by Sequenom. It's a simple blood draw from the baby that tests for Down's Syndrome with 99% accuracy. Your baby, at 10 weeks old, tests positive for the the chromosomal abnormality.

If you're in Mississippi, it could be you'd have no choice on what to do. Aborting the fetus would be murder. But in the other 49 states and PR you're still well within the time frame, and your rights, to have a standard abortion. Some doc can just suck that defective blob of cells right out of your uterus.

Would you abort if you knew your kid would, basically, be retarded?

Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?

I'm guessing as we get smarter there will be more an more opportunity to detect birth defects, with high accuracy, very early on in a pregnancy, not just downs but others as well. Should we be factoring this into any debate about abortion, the right-to-life, or the person-status of a newly joined egg/sperm unit?
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#2 Nov 15 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?
I think the world would be better place without a lot of people, most of which you can't detect the exact reason as to why they shouldn't exist. I'd probably be for vacuuming it out and trying again, but overall seeing as how my reproductive organs dangle I don't have much of a say in the matter.
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#3 Nov 15 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?
I think the world would be better place without a lot of people,

Yeah, and most of the Down's folks I've met were not them.
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#4 Nov 15 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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If it's a planned and wanted baby I'd keep it. I'm all pro-choice and what not but, I don't think the whole idea of "Well this one's broken might as well get rid of it for a new one" idea is the best way to do things.
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#5varusword75, Posted: Nov 15 2011 at 12:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) arex,
#6 Nov 15 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that all life has inherent value.
Except anyone not white, male, Christian, and Republican.

Edited, Nov 15th 2011 1:32pm by lolgaxe
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#7 Nov 15 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
arex,

Quote:
I don't think the whole idea of "Well this one's broken might as well get rid of it for a new one" idea is the best way to do things.


Why not? That's what's going on with abortions. Women decide they don't want it and get rid of it just like that; with the help of people like obama (who support late term abortions) of course.

I'm still of the opinion that all life has inherent value.



No...

Not at all really. Aborting an unwanted baby is one thing, but aborting a baby you planned because you find out it has down's syndrome is entirely different.
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#8 Nov 15 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Box it up and mail it to Palin. Or Varus.
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#9varusword75, Posted: Nov 15 2011 at 12:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lagaga,
#10 Nov 15 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
The irony is a few posts earlier you were talking about killing off peopole you don't like.
That's actually not irony, considering I'm not the one pretending "all life has inherent value," but I don't expect you to know English all that well to begin with, Frenchy. Smiley: smile
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#11 Nov 15 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
with the help of people like obama

Come on now, Barry is a man of many talents, but he just doesn't have time or credentials to be helping out with abortions.
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#12varusword75, Posted: Nov 15 2011 at 12:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#13 Nov 15 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
You're pregnant with a planned and wanted child. On your physicians advice you have the new test by Sequenom. It's a simple blood draw from the baby that tests for Down's Syndrome with 99% accuracy. Your baby, at 10 weeks old, tests positive for the the chromosomal abnormality.

If you're in Mississippi, it could be you'd have no choice on what to do. Aborting the fetus would be murder. But in the other 49 states and PR you're still well within the time frame, and your rights, to have a standard abortion. Some doc can just suck that defective blob of cells right out of your uterus.

Would you abort if you knew your kid would, basically, be retarded?

Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?

I'm guessing as we get smarter there will be more an more opportunity to detect birth defects, with high accuracy, very early on in a pregnancy, not just downs but others as well. Should we be factoring this into any debate about abortion, the right-to-life, or the person-status of a newly joined egg/sperm unit?


I would.

My mother said that when I was in vivo, so to speak, the first tests for DS were just available. They were invasive, harmful, and carried a high risk of complications. My mother was 39 and decided the risk of the test was worth it. I came out negative. So they had me. (To be fair, I was one of the unplanned valentine's babies and not planned.)

There is no cure for Trisomy 21. While there are many adults with the syndrome that are high functioning and can lead productive lives, there are many more who are low functioning. Most other DNA transcription errors of this magnitude on other chromosomes will cause the fetus to miscarry, or will cause much more severe issues that result in death. Also, many adults with Down's syndome suffer from infertility, so it's unlikely you'll get grandchildren later on.
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#14 Nov 15 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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I came back to this post hoping varus had some snarky *** comment for me. I'm sadly mistaken.
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#15 Nov 15 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?
I think the world would be better place without a lot of people, most of which you can't detect the exact reason as to why they shouldn't exist. I'd probably be for vacuuming it out and trying again, but overall seeing as how my reproductive organs dangle I don't have much of a say in the matter.


This is the truest statement in the whole pro-life/pro choice debate. If you've got balls GTFO!
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#16 Nov 16 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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This might be cruel and selfish, but I would say it depends on the severity of the retardation. If they would never develop, such as speaking or independent movement (basically an infant their entire life) then I would say terminate it. I feel quality of life is so much more important than quantity. However, I realize that quality of life is subjective and would be difficult to say what the cut-off point would actually be. For me, if they are never going to reach a point of self-awareness I think it would be better to not bring the baby to term. I have let my family know that if for some reason I am ever found to be brain-dead to let me die.

That being said, my ***** is still used strictly for ******* so I don't even have a horse in this race.
#17 Nov 16 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
For me, if I were involved in the decision with my hypothetical future wife, it would have more to do my financial situation at the time. In theory, I'd have have no problem raising a child with Down's Syndrome; I've known a few over the years, and they can be wonderful. But to be totally honest, one would be very expensive to raise properly, especially considering that they will most likely need care well into their adulthood (probably for all of their life).

Ultimately, though, as a few people have said, it wouldn't be my decision in the end, since I'm not the one carrying it in my tummy.
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#18 Nov 16 2011 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure my feelings would change if I were ever in that situation. Personally? I would opt for an abortion. But ultimately it would be up to my partner/spouse. And it would depend on a LOT of things: was it difficult to conceive in the first place? Are future embryos likely to have the same marker? Would we be willing to adopt instead of having our own children? Do we have the money to support a child with DS?

Again, sitting as a single 25-year old guy, I can easily say "Better luck next time." As a prospective parent looking forward to my first-born child with my circumstances completely unknown, I'm really not sure what I'd choose.
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#19 Nov 16 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there would be a lot of factors to consider, not the least of which being: "How hard did we have to try to get to this point?".
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#20 Nov 16 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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After I've witnessed the incredible difficulty when one of my aunt's friends had a child with Down Syndrome? Without hesitation.

Poor kid also had leukemia.
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#21 Nov 16 2011 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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xantav wrote:
This might be cruel and selfish, but I would say it depends on the severity of the retardation. If they would never develop, such as speaking or independent movement (basically an infant their entire life) then I would say terminate it.
While the accuracy for determining if a fetus has downs or not is very high, I don't think there's any testing to provide much information about severity of the defect.
Quote:
That being said, my ***** is still used strictly for ******* so I don't even have a horse in this race.
Sounds like a waste of *****.
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#22 Nov 16 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
xantav wrote:
This might be cruel and selfish, but I would say it depends on the severity of the retardation. If they would never develop, such as speaking or independent movement (basically an infant their entire life) then I would say terminate it.
While the accuracy for determining if a fetus has downs or not is very high, I don't think there's any testing to provide much information about severity of the defect.
Quote:
That being said, my ***** is still used strictly for ******* so I don't even have a horse in this race.
Sounds like a waste of *****.
Thanks to the internet, I've learned that's not always the case
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#23 Nov 16 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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My sister has a part time job at a center for severely handicapped people. There are patients there that can't move on their own, can't breathe themselves, get tube fed and are really just plants. There are some vague reactions to things like bathing or music but nothing beyond that. Yet they're still being kept alive artificially for decades, with very few to no visits of family or anything.
The only real reason these people are alive is because their family doesn't want to let nature take it's course.
In cases like that, I'm all for abortion.
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#24 Nov 16 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Would you abort if you knew your kid would, basically, be retarded?

Do you think the world would be a better place without people with Down's Syndrome?


No, and no.

If I committed to having a kid, I'd like to think I'd be enough of a grownup to accept it without reservation.

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#25 Nov 16 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, and Yes.

I like Eugenics.
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#26 Nov 16 2011 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having dealt with a child with special needs, I can say with confidence that raising a child with special needs is a lot of work, stress, fear, worry, etc. BUT that said, I would still have a child even knowing if they had Downes Syndrome. In fact, we refused all of those types of tests that could tell us if that was a potential because simply, it wouldn't have mattered to us. I know some kids who have DS and they are some of the most amazing people I know. DS is livable. It's not typical, but it's livable.

That said, if there were tests to tell me if my child had a disorder where they would die as an infant child with no chance of surviving to adulthood? Yes, then I would abort.
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