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#102 Apr 10 2012 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'm not buying it. The whole anti-abortion argument is based on a fetus having the right to live.

It has zero to do with how the fetus was made.
Not necessarily. Some people, mostly crazy people mind you, think being forced to have the baby is the punishment the girl deserves for being a 'ho. Because sex is for making babies, not pleasure. And since they're not calling a poor raped girl a 'ho, it makes perfect sense not to force her to have the baby.


For me, it's not about fetuses (feti?) having a right to live, it's about abortion leading to a lack of personal responsibility and there being other options other than abortion. As someone earlier in the thread said, there are plenty of families that would love to adopt a child. There are even lots of families that would be willing to pay for medical costs for an expectant mother in the event they they can adopt the child (a la the movie Juno).

On top of this, abortion is a cop out to the personal responsibilty of having sex when you don't want to have children. Yes, there are contraceptives. And yes, everybody who takes them has information available that lets them know the contraception isn't 100% effective.

So yes, there are conservative viewpoints that don't depend on the "life begins at conception argument".
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#103 Apr 10 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
If you don't have a problem with Abortion per say, then having an abortion is taking responsibility. I'd say recognizing you not equipped to have a child and taking an appropriate action is pretty responsible.
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#104 Apr 10 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm pro-choice but I believe abortion should be a last resort, and the best means of preventing abortions is to prevent pregnancies in the first place. Regardless of my personal belief, however, I also think it needs to remain legal, safe, and effective, and decisions regarding any pregnancy, planned or unplanned, need to be undertaken with grave consideration from all parties involved.

I also firmly believe that contraceptives don't prevent babies so much as they prevent single mothers.

Also, we need a male version of the BC pill, ASAP. And not only should all insurance plans be required to cover it (just like the ruling on women's pills, although those are also used to treat female plumbing problems in about 20% of cases - did you know virgins are often prescribed the pills?), I suspect that they'll do so voluntarily, for the same reason most plans automatically included BC pills under copays already. Why? Pills are far, far cheaper than childbirth and children to any insurance company.

Edited, Apr 10th 2012 12:36pm by catwho
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#105 Apr 10 2012 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
For me, it's not about fetuses (feti?) having a right to live, it's about abortion leading to a lack of personal responsibility

So this is about teaching them a lesson?

Thanks, dad. You make Gbaji sound.... well, no you don't. You both sound asinine.
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#106 Apr 10 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'm not buying it. The whole anti-abortion argument is based on a fetus having the right to live.

It has zero to do with how the fetus was made.
Not necessarily. Some people, mostly crazy people mind you, think being forced to have the baby is the punishment the girl deserves for being a 'ho. Because sex is for making babies, not pleasure. And since they're not calling a poor raped girl a 'ho, it makes perfect sense not to force her to have the baby.


For me, it's not about fetuses (feti?) having a right to live, it's about abortion leading to a lack of personal responsibility and there being other options other than abortion. As someone earlier in the thread said, there are plenty of families that would love to adopt a child. There are even lots of families that would be willing to pay for medical costs for an expectant mother in the event they they can adopt the child (a la the movie Juno).

On top of this, abortion is a cop out to the personal responsibilty of having sex when you don't want to have children. Yes, there are contraceptives. And yes, everybody who takes them has information available that lets them know the contraception isn't 100% effective.

So yes, there are conservative viewpoints that don't depend on the "life begins at conception argument".
So basically, don't be a 'ho if you don't wanna have a baby. Gotcha.


This board makes me feel better about my "Baby has a right to life but you can make strong arguments that it's not really a baby until late second/early third trimester so no use worrying about it til then" stance sometimes.
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#107 Apr 10 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
On top of this, abortion is a cop out to the personal responsibilty of having sex when you don't want to have children. Yes, there are contraceptives. And yes, everybody who takes them has information available that lets them know the contraception isn't 100% effective.
No offense but it's a pretty stupid argument either way. It's simple fact that people are going to have sex no matter what you do, including people who do not want and/or are incapable of raising a child.
It's sad that contraception isn't 100% effective but when using the pill and a condom you're reducing the chance to about 0.02% or so over a year of regular sex. Abortion should be available for those people because I'd much rather see an abortion than have a baby born from parents who are incapable of raising a child or whose lives will be seriously messed up if they do have a child.

Also what Xsarus and Joph said.

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I'm pretty sure there's actually an injection for males that works for up to two years and can be canceled out by another injection if needed. It's been a while since I've heard anything about that though so I'm not 100% certain.
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#108 Apr 10 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
catwho wrote:
I'm pretty sure there's actually an injection for males that works for up to two years and can be canceled out by another injection if needed. It's been a while since I've heard anything about that though so I'm not 100% certain.
Screw that. Electro-balls lasts 10 years. And it doesn't screw with your hormones, iirc.


Edited, Apr 10th 2012 10:34am by Poldaran
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#109 Apr 10 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yay, another abortion thread!

Smiley: banghead
#110 Apr 10 2012 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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We can turn it into a DADT or gay marriage thread instead, if you prefer.

Or an abortion rights for gay married couples in the military thread.

Edited, Apr 10th 2012 12:41pm by Spoonless
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#111 Apr 10 2012 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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When aborted fetuses get gay married, the planet gets hotter... if you know what I mean.
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#112 Apr 10 2012 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
Yay, another abortion thread!

Smiley: banghead
But, we have to. It's our duty.
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#113 Apr 10 2012 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Pfft. Global warming is a lie.
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#114 Apr 10 2012 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I'm pro-choice but I believe abortion should be a last resort, and the best means of preventing abortions is to prevent pregnancies in the first place. Regardless of my personal belief, however, I also think it needs to remain legal, safe, and effective, and decisions regarding any pregnancy, planned or unplanned, need to be undertaken with grave consideration from all parties involved.

I also firmly believe that contraceptives don't prevent babies so much as they prevent single mothers.

Also, we need a male version of the BC pill, ASAP. And not only should all insurance plans be required to cover it (just women's pills, although those are also used to treat female plumbing problems in about 20% of cases - did you know virgins are often prescribed the pills?), I suspect that they'll do so voluntarily, for the same reason most plans automatically included BC pills under copays already. Why? Pills are far, far cheaper than childbirth and children to any insurance company.


I agree with a lot of what you said in this post. I also think there are better options to abortion. I also think there are a couple of other cases where abortion should be considered, such as when the mother's life would be put in jeopardy by carrying the baby to full term.

And Joph, you can call it whatever makes you feel better.
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#115 Apr 10 2012 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'm not buying it. The whole anti-abortion argument is based on a fetus having the right to live.

It has zero to do with how the fetus was made.
Not necessarily. Some people, mostly crazy people mind you, think being forced to have the baby is the punishment the girl deserves for being a 'ho. Because sex is for making babies, not pleasure. And since they're not calling a poor raped girl a 'ho, it makes perfect sense not to force her to have the baby.


For me, it's not about fetuses (feti?) having a right to live, it's about abortion leading to a lack of personal responsibility and there being other options other than abortion. As someone earlier in the thread said, there are plenty of families that would love to adopt a child. There are even lots of families that would be willing to pay for medical costs for an expectant mother in the event they they can adopt the child (a la the movie Juno).

On top of this, abortion is a cop out to the personal responsibilty of having sex when you don't want to have children. Yes, there are contraceptives. And yes, everybody who takes them has information available that lets them know the contraception isn't 100% effective.

So yes, there are conservative viewpoints that don't depend on the "life begins at conception argument".
Lol, you want to outlaw abortion to teach personal responsibility?

Seems extreme to ask the government to outlaw abortion just to teach us stupid women a lesson. Chastity belts might be more sensible.

Besides once you teach that stupid young woman a lesson by making her keep and raise a child, you're going to have to turn around and now teach that same lesson to the unwanted child as there's a strong possibility the babe might make the same mistake as it's mum.

But look, Good news - Birthrate for teens is lowest in US history.






Edited, Apr 10th 2012 6:54pm by Elinda
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#116 Apr 10 2012 at 10:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
And Joph, you can call it whatever makes you feel better.

And you can say my criticism is just me trying to "feel better" if that helps Smiley: smile
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#117 Apr 10 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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For example, I thought that the key platform of the Tea Party *was* fiscal conservative.
It was, I think. It got hijacked by all the racists, gay bashers, and pretty much other of the rest of the republican party that doesn't want to compromise on anything ever.


So you've been to a lot of Tea Party rallies then? Or this is just your perception based on what some liberal media source told you?
My bad, every single person at a Tea Party rally is just concerned on the fiscal level. I should have known that. The fact that they are largely anti affirmative action, anti gay marriage, and pro non compromise is just a coincidence.
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#118 Apr 10 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
And Joph, you can call it whatever makes you feel better.


I think he summed things up quite nicely.

Your position on abortion is illogical, at best.
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#119 Apr 10 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
catwho wrote:
I'm pro-choice but I believe abortion should be a last resort, and the best means of preventing abortions is to prevent pregnancies in the first place. Regardless of my personal belief, however, I also think it needs to remain legal, safe, and effective, and decisions regarding any pregnancy, planned or unplanned, need to be undertaken with grave consideration from all parties involved.

I also firmly believe that contraceptives don't prevent babies so much as they prevent single mothers.

Also, we need a male version of the BC pill, ASAP. And not only should all insurance plans be required to cover it (just women's pills, although those are also used to treat female plumbing problems in about 20% of cases - did you know virgins are often prescribed the pills?), I suspect that they'll do so voluntarily, for the same reason most plans automatically included BC pills under copays already. Why? Pills are far, far cheaper than childbirth and children to any insurance company.


I agree with a lot of what you said in this post. I also think there are better options to abortion. I also think there are a couple of other cases where abortion should be considered, such as when the mother's life would be put in jeopardy by carrying the baby to full term.

And Joph, you can call it whatever makes you feel better.


There are occasionally better options, but pregnancy takes a mental and physical toll on a teenager that they are not really prepared for. So while adoption is always an option, I think a girl completing her high school education uninterrupted by suicidal thoughts because she's stuck carrying a child she doesn't want for nine months is actually the better option.
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#120 Apr 10 2012 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I agree with a lot of what you said in this post. I also think there are better options to abortion. I also think there are a couple of other cases where abortion should be considered, such as when the mother's life would be put in jeopardy by carrying the baby to full term.

And Joph, you can call it whatever makes you feel better.

But if your concern isn't the right of the unborn baby not to be aborted, then I don't understand your problem. If the fetus doesn't have a right to live, then what business does anyone have trying to stop it from happening?
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#121 Apr 10 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I also think there are better options to abortion.
Stairs, doors, wire hangers, Falcon Punches ...
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#122 Apr 10 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
If there are so many families out there that want to adopt children, why are there so many kids in the foster care system? People don't want to adopt children, they want to adopt healthy, white newborns. There is a difference.

It's perfectly understandable for someone to have the opinion that women should give up their unwanted babies for adoption instead of aborting them. However, it's also extremely naive. There is absolutely no guarantee that that baby is going to get adopted. The likelihood of the child getting adopted goes down as he or she gets older, and goes down even more if the child isn't white.
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#123 Apr 10 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obviously then only white people should be allowed to have sex and potentially procreate.
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#124 Apr 10 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Down with honkey.
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#125 Apr 10 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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That's actually an argument I've heard before - if only non-whites were getting abortions, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But since it's the Bristol Palins of the world out there getting knocked up, we must put an end to the white-baby-killing!
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#126 Apr 10 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Well and it's definitely not something I agree with, but unfortunately that is the harsh reality of this country. A larger proportion of the parents who want to adopt are white, and most of them want children that will look like them. While I can't fault them for that, I don't think it's right to not adopt a child because they don't look the way you want them to look.
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#127 Apr 10 2012 at 7:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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There are occasionally better options, but pregnancy takes a mental and physical toll on a teenager that they are not really prepared for.


So does adoption, which no one ever seems to want to talk about.
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#128 Apr 10 2012 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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A larger proportion of the parents who want to adopt are white


Probably not. A larger proportion of the parents who can afford to? Yes. Fortunately for me, I impregnate women in mine and the 4 adjacent counties every time I yawn, so this is not an issue I'll have to contend with.
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#129 Apr 10 2012 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

A larger proportion of the parents who want to adopt are white


Probably not. A larger proportion of the parents who can afford to? Yes. Fortunately for me, I impregnate women in mine and the 4 adjacent counties every time I yawn, so this is not an issue I'll have to contend with.



Is that on the inhale, or the exhale?

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#130 Apr 10 2012 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is that on the inhale, or the exhale?


Kitten, if I didn't cover my mouth when I exhaled, cape cod would fall off into the ocean from all the extra weight of the new embryos. That said, I can whistle inhaling or exhaling if you know what I mean. What other creepy sounding nonsense things can I sneak in here. Buttery feet lance precipitously towards ecstasy. Yes. That will do nicely.
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#131 Apr 12 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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8. Abortion, except in the case of rape or medical emergancy is wrong. Yes, Women have a choice, but that choice ends after they make a decision to engage in activities that result in a baby.
15. the war on drugs is a massive failure due to operating under restricted warfare rules similar to vietnam. we know where they are growing the stuff, we know where they are making it. Wipe them out. Any country that doesn't is contributing to the problem. Double the coast guard budget overall, Nuke Colombia from orbit, Tell Canukistan to lock down their ports better or we will, etc.
16. All of the remainign republican candidates are @#%^ing disasters and will hand the election uncontested to Obama.


8. I can understand not wanting late term abortions, but what about early term? Is there a rough point before which abortions should be allowed?
15. Is the both the economic and political cost for pursuing this type of strategy worth it?
16. Which republican candidate did you believe had a shot at contesting the election?
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#132 Apr 12 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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On top of this, abortion is a cop out to the personal responsibilty of having sex when you don't want to have children. Yes, there are contraceptives. And yes, everybody who takes them has information available that lets them know the contraception isn't 100% effective.


Why is abortion not a valid method of contraception in the first place? What's bad about it, if not for the death of the foetus? If it is a valid method, then contraception is wholly effective at preventing childbirth, and it is not irresponsible to have sex without wanting children.

By banning abortion, you could artificially create a set of circumstances that make it irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child. But 'it's irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child' would not justify bringing that state about. You need an argument for why America is a better country if you change the law to induce conditions that make it irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child.

Your argument seems rather circular.
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#133 Apr 12 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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#134 Apr 12 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.
#135 Apr 12 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Why is abortion not a valid method of contraception in the first place? What's bad about it, if not for the death of the foetus?


I think that most people would say you just answered your own question. The death of a fetus that would otherwise develop into a human is what's bad about it and what differentiates it from preventative methods of contraception.

Quote:
If it is a valid method, then contraception is wholly effective at preventing childbirth, and it is not irresponsible to have sex without wanting children.


If we eliminate the moral implications of our actions, then a whole lot of effective means can be opened up. That isn't necessarily a good thing. We could dramatically decrease the cost of health care if we just killed anyone over the age of 65. They're all retired anyway, right? Off to the Carousel! Same with any handicapped person. Just kill them off. Think how much better the world would be!

Quote:
By banning abortion, you could artificially create a set of circumstances that make it irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child. But 'it's irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child' would not justify bringing that state about.


And by banning the killing of anyone who is old or handicapped, we artificially create a set of circumstances that make it irresponsible to grow old, or take risks which might result in being disabled. I'm sorry, but the idea that we can make an irresponsible act appear responsible simply by not preventing the use of arguably immoral act to "clean up" the problem we created is just insane.

It's as nutty as saying we could eliminate theft by just legalizing it. If we just make it legal for people to steal stuff from others, then there's no crime if/when they do, so problem solved! Or we can just eliminate all private property and give everyone what they need, and then there will be nothing to steal. Oh wait! That's what some people actually do want to do, so maybe that's not such a great example. It's nutty anyway. You're not solving problems, you're creating worse ones.

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You need an argument for why America is a better country if you change the law to induce conditions that make it irresponsible to have sex without wanting a child.


Um... Because America is a better country if our laws do place limits on behavior which a majority of the population believes is wrong? Until you can get 99% of the population to agree that abortion is perfectly moral right up to the moment of birth we must have laws which restrict to some degree the act of abortion. We can argue about where those limits should apply and how they should be applied, but there clearly must be some.

This is not an all or nothing issue. It's a matter of degrees. Not everyone thinks that abortion should be banned entirely. Not everyone believes that abortion should be allowed up to the moment of birth. Thus, our laws and legal restrictions really should fall somewhere in between those end points. And as long as that is true, we are left with the issue of irresponsible sex you started with.
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#136 Apr 12 2012 at 3:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think the majority of the men understand abortions, and a good minority of women don't either. Which is sad, because it means there are women out there who are still ignorant of their own plumbing and probably believe they bleed once a month because Eve took a bite out of an apple.

Unfertilized eggs are no more sacred than sperm, other than a woman not having as many good ones as she gets older (which does in fact also hit men, albeit at a later age, and has been implicated in the uptick in autism as a possible contributing factor.)

And a fertilized egg is just a blob of cells for the first few days, fraught with peril. Those early cell divisions are super critical and one wrong DNA transcription means the whole thing is scrapped. There is no Six Sigma in baby making; it is estimated that one third of blastocytes and embryos are unviable and are terminated naturally by the body.

God aborts more babies than any human being.
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#137 Apr 12 2012 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Timelordwho wrote:

8. I can understand not wanting late term abortions, but what about early term? Is there a rough point before which abortions should be allowed?
15. Is the both the economic and political cost for pursuing this type of strategy worth it?
16. Which republican candidate did you believe had a shot at contesting the election?


8.For me, it's about terminating a thinking human being. Probably once the theoretical foetus has developed a brainstem and cranial matter, I would probably have a problem with someone arbritrarially killing it.
15. I believe so, mainly due to the security implications. The crime empire you know and can find because they are tied to a specific location to grow a specific crop is going to be brutal and vicious, but easier to find and eliminate. Widespread legalization would probably lead to a less violent criminal enterprise, or maybe "less visible" at any rate, but also one that is more pervasive and harder to eliminate.
edit: forgot 16.
16. To be honest, none of the ones who ran did. Maybe Matt Christie if he had ran, Gingrich had too much bad history, though I think if he magically got the nomination he might have a better shot than Romney just because of having more experiance in upper echelon politics. 0+ .000000001 is still almost zero though. Santorum could have taken it if he had kept his mouth shut just based on the "anyone but Mitt" factor. Ron Paul is insane, so he's out. Mccain is too old, he couldn't have taken it even if he had ran. Palin is also insane. Maybe one of the governors or senetors out there. Hell, a decent famous person with little prior political experiance willing to give it a shot probably could have made more headway than Mitt will.

Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.

While the shot at me was obvious, The apperent fact that you apperently feel the average couple is incapable of figuring out basic birth control practices is a rather pessimistic worldview. I don't buy the "religion prohibits contraceptives" argument because those same religions prohibit abortions too. For the rest of them, if they want to play, be prepared to pay the price or take measures to prevent it. I'm a firm believer in government funding to remove the breeding capability of anyone who requests it or for stupid people. If you are too dumb to figure out how not to make a baby while entertaining yourselves if you don't want one, you probably fall into the latter category. I definitly feel that Women (or men for that matter too) shouldn't have unprotected sex for pleasure unless they want a baby. There are many temporary and permanent options to prevent pregnancy, and the simplest ones are even free...

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 3:03pm by Kaolian
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#138 Apr 12 2012 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

I'm a sporadic virgin, myself.
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#139 Apr 12 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
15. I believe so, mainly due to the security implications. The crime empire you know and can find because they are tied to a specific location to grow a specific crop is going to be brutal and vicious, but easier to find and eliminate. Widespread legalization would probably lead to a less violent criminal enterprise, or maybe "less visible" at any rate, but also one that is more pervasive and harder to eliminate.

I don't think this is the case, if only because there isn't a pervasive criminal element involved in alcohol sales that needs to be eliminated. You'd have to provide some reasoning here, as I am unconvinced.
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#140 Apr 12 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I don't think the majority of the men understand abortions, and a good minority of women don't either. Which is sad, because it means there are women out there who are still ignorant of their own plumbing and probably believe they bleed once a month because Eve took a bite out of an apple.

Unfertilized eggs are no more sacred than sperm, other than a woman not having as many good ones as she gets older (which does in fact also hit men, albeit at a later age, and has been implicated in the uptick in autism as a possible contributing factor.)

And a fertilized egg is just a blob of cells for the first few days, fraught with peril. Those early cell divisions are super critical and one wrong DNA transcription means the whole thing is scrapped. There is no Six Sigma in baby making; it is estimated that one third of blastocytes and embryos are unviable and are terminated naturally by the body.

God aborts more babies than any human being.

Do you understand the difference? One is done naturally, the other requires outside intervention
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#141 Apr 12 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Kastigir wrote:
catwho wrote:
I don't think the majority of the men understand abortions, and a good minority of women don't either. Which is sad, because it means there are women out there who are still ignorant of their own plumbing and probably believe they bleed once a month because Eve took a bite out of an apple.

Unfertilized eggs are no more sacred than sperm, other than a woman not having as many good ones as she gets older (which does in fact also hit men, albeit at a later age, and has been implicated in the uptick in autism as a possible contributing factor.)

And a fertilized egg is just a blob of cells for the first few days, fraught with peril. Those early cell divisions are super critical and one wrong DNA transcription means the whole thing is scrapped. There is no Six Sigma in baby making; it is estimated that one third of blastocytes and embryos are unviable and are terminated naturally by the body.

God aborts more babies than any human being.

Do you understand the difference? One is done naturally, the other requires outside intervention


God isn't outside intervention?
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#142 Apr 12 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Kastigir wrote:
catwho wrote:
I don't think the majority of the men understand abortions, and a good minority of women don't either. Which is sad, because it means there are women out there who are still ignorant of their own plumbing and probably believe they bleed once a month because Eve took a bite out of an apple.

Unfertilized eggs are no more sacred than sperm, other than a woman not having as many good ones as she gets older (which does in fact also hit men, albeit at a later age, and has been implicated in the uptick in autism as a possible contributing factor.)

And a fertilized egg is just a blob of cells for the first few days, fraught with peril. Those early cell divisions are super critical and one wrong DNA transcription means the whole thing is scrapped. There is no Six Sigma in baby making; it is estimated that one third of blastocytes and embryos are unviable and are terminated naturally by the body.

God aborts more babies than any human being.

Do you understand the difference? One is done naturally, the other requires outside intervention


God isn't outside intervention?

If God exists, he isn't taking a spatula and scraping uterine walls clear of human tissue.
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#143 Apr 12 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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You've just described menstruation pretty accurately.
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#144 Apr 12 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've probably said this before, but she's got the baby growing in her, she should do what she thinks is best. I'll defer to her judgement and support her either way.

catwho wrote:
God isn't outside intervention?


Another man who just can't keep his hands out of a Women's reproductive issue... Smiley: disappointed


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#145 Apr 12 2012 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
You've just described menstruation pretty accurately.

Really? A woman has to take a spatula to clean that sh*t out? Man, the textbooks have been lying to me all this time.
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#146 Apr 12 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.


I'm don't think that type of characterization is entirely helpful in either understanding where they are coming from, nor useful in attempting to change their opinions on the subject.
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#147 Apr 12 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Kastigir wrote:
catwho wrote:
You've just described menstruation pretty accurately.

Really? A woman has to take a spatula to clean that sh*t out? Man, the textbooks have been lying to me all this time.

Yes, the same way God uses one for those miscarriages.
#148 Apr 12 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.

While the shot at me was obvious, The apperent fact that you apperently feel the average couple is incapable of figuring out basic birth control practices is a rather pessimistic worldview. I don't buy the "religion prohibits contraceptives" argument because those same religions prohibit abortions too. For the rest of them, if they want to play, be prepared to pay the price or take measures to prevent it. I'm a firm believer in government funding to remove the breeding capability of anyone who requests it or for stupid people. If you are too dumb to figure out how not to make a baby while entertaining yourselves if you don't want one, you probably fall into the latter category. I definitly feel that Women (or men for that matter too) shouldn't have unprotected sex for pleasure unless they want a baby. There are many temporary and permanent options to prevent pregnancy, and the simplest ones are even free...

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 3:03pm by Kaolian


Just to be clear, it's not just your stance on abortion that makes your post scream "virgin!". It's all the other stupid stuff too, like no marital benefits for anyone because single people get screwed, and the several paragraphs about how we should spend more money on outer space and airplanes that make it apparent that there is very little room left for a vagina in the wacky world of Kaolian.
#149 Apr 12 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.


I'm don't think that type of characterization is entirely helpful in either understanding where they are coming from, nor useful in attempting to change their opinions on the subject.


When it comes to educating people here, I pick my battles very carefully. 99.9% of the time I'd be better of trying to teach my dog how to do the dishes. I'd rather bite back at misogyny by reminding the hopeless that if they ever DO want to see a vagina, they better think twice about the ways they speak around a lady.
#150 Apr 12 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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16. To be honest, none of the ones who ran did. Maybe Matt Christie if he had ran, Gingrich had too much bad history, though I think if he magically got the nomination he might have a better shot than Romney just because of having more experience in upper echelon politics. 0+ .000000001 is still almost zero though. Santorum could have taken it if he had kept his mouth shut just based on the "anyone but Mitt" factor. Ron Paul is insane, so he's out. Mccain is too old, he couldn't have taken it even if he had ran. Palin is also insane. Maybe one of the governors or senators out there. Hell, a decent famous person with little prior political experience willing to give it a shot probably could have made more headway than Mitt will.


Here's the thing though; any candidate with the tools and resources to make an effective push for the presidency would be better off doing it in 2016. It's a much easier field to fight on. Plus, most of the established contestants received their requisite 'not-bribes' from the current administration to not run this year.

Quote:
8.For me, it's about terminating a thinking human being. Probably once the theoretical fetus has developed a brain stem and cranial matter, I would probably have a problem with someone arbitrarily killing it.
15. I believe so, mainly due to the security implications. The crime empire you know and can find because they are tied to a specific location to grow a specific crop is going to be brutal and vicious, but easier to find and eliminate. Widespread legalization would probably lead to a less violent criminal enterprise, or maybe "less visible" at any rate, but also one that is more pervasive and harder to eliminate.


8. If most (ie. non-late term) abortions were performed prior to any real development of cranial tissue and organ growth, would you still be against them, conceptually? I ask this, because most are performed prior to this point. Anything in the first trimester is basically just a cellular mass, 2nd has appearance of form, but still nothing really concrete, and 3rd clearly has vital working components. Based on this, would you revise your position to something more akin to putting a prohibition on abortions performed after say, somewhere in the 12-18 weeks range (Which still allows abortions in the vast majority of current cases, but would curb the abuse potential)?

15. Fighting organized crime is expensive, it's like fighting Terrorism (which is coincidentally heavily supported by organized drug crime), I don't think a plan which fails to recognize other nations sovereignty would hold water for a host of reasons, not the least of which is that it would cost tens of trillions of USD to attempt to exert an imperialistic mandate. It's just not possible to go to a territorial war for this reason.

I also don't see the necessity of their being a criminal element tied to the sale and production of (legal) drug goods. There are really quite a few cases where using less of a broad based solution to say "ending all drug use in the USA" would allow them to focusing on something more realistic.

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 7:25pm by Timelordwho
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#151 Apr 12 2012 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guenny wrote:
Timelordwho wrote:
Guenny wrote:
Reading Kao's post made me lolol, because his POV can stem only from someone who is a perpetual virgin.

And the other men in the thread that are rallying against abortion either A: are also virgins, B: believe that women shouldn't have sex for pleasure, or C: are in sexless marriages and feel that if their wife isn't giving it up, no one else's wives should. So f*cking sad.


I'm don't think that type of characterization is entirely helpful in either understanding where they are coming from, nor useful in attempting to change their opinions on the subject.


When it comes to educating people here, I pick my battles very carefully. 99.9% of the time I'd be better of trying to teach my dog how to do the dishes. I'd rather bite back at misogyny by reminding the hopeless that if they ever DO want to see a vagina, they better think twice about the ways they speak around a lady.


So you'd prefer if they'd lie to you(Well, women in general) about how they interpret the world, and continue to vote for people like our buddy Rick? Well, I guess that's a valid stance, if not entirely productive at changing social mores.
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