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Why is all loot the same?Follow

#1 Nov 25 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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It has always bothered me that all loot that is distributed is always the same. For instance, if I go into dungeon A and loot 2H Sword of Death from the final boss, why is it that it always has to have the same stats as someone elses 2H Sword of Death. I would love to see the same weapons looted with say, different dps or different stat numbers. Perhaps in principle the stats could be the same, like a particular weapon will always have +agility or +strength, but why are they always the same. Perhaps each piece of loot could have a pool of points that are allocated to the weapon or armor and then randomly distributed when the item drops. I don't know, just seems that it could allow for more diversity when gearing a character and makes a certain piece of gear more unique.
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#2 Nov 25 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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This is the diablo-esque style of loot generation. All this really leads to in the long run is people searching for the "perfect" drop. Which means more runs to try to get the best item. Personally, with already low drop rates for coveted items and restrictions on the number of times you can run a dungeon per day, I would rather have the static loot tables.

Don't forget, you can always choose to use a different item if you don't want to be exactly the same.
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#3 Nov 25 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I think static would be better because going after x boss will yield x loot. Of course x loot might not drop, but if it does, you'll know that x loot has x stats. It's not about the loot anyways..right?? hehe

pj
#4 Nov 25 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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My husband and I agree with the OP. It would be a nice addition to have loot that is not always the same as someone elses. It makes the world more dynamic. :)
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#5 Nov 25 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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I could go either way with this. On one hand i do like the idea of a weap having different stats and thus maybe increasing how often a certain dungeon is run to get that "perfect" weapon but then part of me likes knowing what i have a chance to get stat wise.
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#6 Nov 25 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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Only works in games where all items are tradable.
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#7 Nov 25 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Good
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This is an interesting discussion. I suppose there is some value in loot stats being randomly generated. But it would be easy for people to get frustrated if they don't get an item with the exact same stats that they want. It would ultimately end up forcing people to run the same dungeon over and over until they get the "best" combo. That type of RNG mechanic usually does more harm than good.
#8 Nov 26 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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best loot i ever got was a big bomb bag from dudungo cavers.
#9 Nov 27 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice idea..but I don't think this will happen in RIFT raids.
#10 Nov 27 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Like someone else said, it would work if the items can be traded. Otherwise people would just grind the same thing until the optimum stats came up for them. The devs have stated that they want to remove(or hide) as much of the needless grinding as they can.
#11 Nov 27 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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This would do more harm then good. I quite alright if there isn't a specific loot table at all. Or each boss of this tier drops something from the table. Another thing they could do would be the loot from PQ's in WAR. You knew exactly what you were going for and could keep going until you got it.
#12 Nov 27 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Entoc wrote:
This would do more harm then good. I quite alright if there isn't a specific loot table at all. Or each boss of this tier drops something from the table. Another thing they could do would be the loot from PQ's in WAR. You knew exactly what you were going for and could keep going until you got it.


Yeah the PQs were more like a long term kill quest than anything else but were deff a good time. Diablo style loot is silly for a game like Rift. Its either everyone kills a certain mob for a certain drop until they get it OR you run dungeons endlessly crossing your fingers to the random number gods for an item with favorable stats.... no thanks
#13 Nov 27 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Kinsume has a point, it would only work in a game where you could pass it on to somebody else rather than just vendoring it. With the soulbound items craze every recent MMO has done, I think it's safe to say this sort of feature won't be around.

It's a shame, because creating a dynamic world should be what it's all about.
#14 Nov 27 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hope will be a lot of tradeable items i like making money that way :p
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#15 Nov 27 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Kinsume wrote:
Only works in games where all items are tradable.



this is a very true statement.
#16 Nov 29 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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What if each item was allocated a certain number of points, and you're able to then distribute those points to whichever stats you want? with a cap to the attributes so that you couldn't overload everything into strength. grants more customization to your character, but might be easy to exploit. Just another thought to go with Gaage's comments.

I prefer the method of sword drops as X, but you can attune an item to it to grant it Y's additional properties.


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#17 Nov 29 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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It could be more interesting possibly if the stats weren't always the same, but you should be able to count on a minimum of X stats. Cheesy's idea of being able to allocate stats is pretty cool too. But yeah, if the things are going to be soul-bound, I have zero interest in varied stats unless it's varied because you can customize them for you. If things are tradeable, varied stats could be really cool and keep the economy in a good place.
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#18 Nov 29 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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full loot pvp ....

QQ below
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#19 Nov 29 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Another side to this might be letting the crafters in game "alter" drops to make them unique? Maybe a certain ingredient drops in a dungeon or raid zone, bring ingredient and drop x to crafter, they do their thing and bam "altered" item. Would also make crafting even more desirable. Maybe stats and or appearance could be changed in different ways to make them more unique. Would change up everyones armor all look the same. Just a thought.
#20 Nov 29 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Leojiab wrote:
Another side to this might be letting the crafters in game "alter" drops to make them unique? Maybe a certain ingredient drops in a dungeon or raid zone, bring ingredient and drop x to crafter, they do their thing and bam "altered" item. Would also make crafting even more desirable. Maybe stats and or appearance could be changed in different ways to make them more unique. Would change up everyones armor all look the same. Just a thought.

That seems like a really good idea to me.
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#21 Nov 30 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Leojiab wrote:
Another side to this might be letting the crafters in game "alter" drops to make them unique? Maybe a certain ingredient drops in a dungeon or raid zone, bring ingredient and drop x to crafter, they do their thing and bam "altered" item. Would also make crafting even more desirable. Maybe stats and or appearance could be changed in different ways to make them more unique. Would change up everyones armor all look the same. Just a thought.


This actually sounds like a really cool and awesome idea to me. Would also give crafters something useful to do in the long term, rather than just as people are leveling.
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#22 Nov 30 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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Leojiab wrote:
Another side to this might be letting the crafters in game "alter" drops to make them unique? Maybe a certain ingredient drops in a dungeon or raid zone, bring ingredient and drop x to crafter, they do their thing and bam "altered" item. Would also make crafting even more desirable. Maybe stats and or appearance could be changed in different ways to make them more unique. Would change up everyones armor all look the same. Just a thought.


That actually does sound like a decent idea.
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#23 Nov 30 2010 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Leojiab wrote:
Another side to this might be letting the crafters in game "alter" drops to make them unique? Maybe a certain ingredient drops in a dungeon or raid zone, bring ingredient and drop x to crafter, they do their thing and bam "altered" item. Would also make crafting even more desirable. Maybe stats and or appearance could be changed in different ways to make them more unique. Would change up everyones armor all look the same. Just a thought.



That's pretty much what I was saying when I said I prefer the method that the sword drops as X, but you can attune an item to it to get Y properties. I didn't of it being on a purely aesthetic level though. Have one crafter that could attune the items (ie stats) and a 2nd crafter that would change the look of the item. Or maybe not even a 2nd crafter, but that crafter has to have done more than just the basic training in crafting. Perhaps get to a certain level within the tier, and then do some quest line to master not just the concept of the item, but the essence of the item.... hmmm... Sounds like a plan to me! Put it in the books!

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#24 Nov 30 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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The only way I could see it working (and believe me I am in favor of it) would be one of the following methods.

1) With the weapons being soulbound you would have to 'socket' the item in order to allow a crafter to give you a stat/appearance modifying attachment (which would be tradeable on an auction house system). The biggest drawback I see to this method is you would either have to add limit the modifiers to a single stat or have multiple sockets and use something similar to Vanguard's initial Equipment Experience (cap on the points added for the item's level).

2) Make it so that the soulbound owner would need to be present with the crafter at the time of modification and able to place their item onto the 'forge' for modification. Drawback of this is that the player and crafter would have to be at the same location. Draw backs would be possible player linkdeath during crafting which would have to default as a fail with the items being placed back in the players inventory.
#25 Nov 30 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I like allocating the stats yourself. A way to balance it to prevent Sword of Death w/ 3k Str and no other stats would be to make Each additional cost grow at a curve rather than Linear.

I'll go back to the mud I played that rift reminds me of. Creating a class you had a Choice of 4 Classes. Warrior, Mage, Mystic(Cleric), Ranger(Rogue). You had 150 Points to allocate. A default class would be something like 100 w, 25r, 16m, 9t(mystic). So that would result in 30w15r12m9 Mystic. So the higher you went into a specific class the more it cost. The highest you could go was 36 because it took 144 points to get that high. So people made every combination you can possibly think of trying to make the best character you could have, picking up the skills they wanted.

Doing this same sort of system with the allocation of stats on a weapon could work in precisely the same manor. If they want to put it all into str they could only have something like 36str 7 hit, but if they spread it out they could have 30 strenght, 15 Crit, 12 Hit, 9 Agility and get more out of the weapon.
#26 Nov 30 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm kind of split between all the different suggestions posted here. I would say that a successful MMO would need to mix both static and random stats from item sources.

Basically there would be room for both static and random stat items in all sources of item drops (mob and boss killing, crafting) except from quests. Quests should offer a variety of items just for your class (something like WARs system), so you don't get to choose from items you can't use, and the item that you actually CAN use, but where you already have an equivalent or better item in that slot.

I'd also say that random stats would have to be a little like the system that WoW uses for generating random stats on rare items. So that the random stats come in 'packages' that may or may not suit your class/spec. Like 'of the Moon' gives stamina, intellect and spirit. If you can't use the spirit, there is still stamina and intellect on it and thus still somewhat interesting for nonhealers that don't use spirit.

Sorry for all the references to other games :)
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#27 Nov 30 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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I did like how WAR had class rewards from the quests not just one thing or nothing you could use like some games do.
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#28 Nov 30 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like some randomization in dungeon drops. After running a dungeon so many times you x set of loot or x weapon. I did like how Aion you could combine your weapons. If they had more weapon drops in instances with different stats where you have to combine to make a (super weapon). I think that would make more people willing to run higher level instances more. Just a thought.
#29 Nov 30 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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OP flashes me back to the good ol days of diablo grinding...spent countless hours magic finding on that game. It would be too frustrating to have this in a MMO style game when you cant just go in and solo everything.
#30 Nov 30 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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I want to design a MMO with no levels where you make your original class at creation and then your eq never changes. You use XP that you've earned to pump up your weapon/stats.

Instances/Areas are Dynamic and adjust to your Experience Earned Total. You could respec so to speak but it would be costly like 1 or 10% Total XP. Groups would be fairly close in terms of XP earned that way the instances could be balanced to your group.

Once I get it completely thought up and sell it to a large producer I expect a ZAM forum for it...
#31 Nov 30 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Ten Ton Hammer: Will dungeons have better gear drops than rifts?

Drew Clowery: In general, rifts are theoretically easier than dungeons because there’s no population gap. You can keep brining in more people until your video card melts. Because of that, rifts are considered easier and we try to distribute items based upon the difficulty of the content. If a 5 man dungeon can only be done by 5 people and there’s a certain level of difficulty, it’s going to have loot of that difficulty. If there’s a rift that’s a 5 man rift of comparable difficulty in terms of completing it, we’re going to grade it as being slightly less difficult because you can bring it 6, 8, or 20 people in. At the same time, if you’re doing a 10 to 20 man rift event, which is harder than a 5 man dungeon, we’re going to grade that harder, but not as hard as a 10 to 20 man raid event, where you can only bring in that specific number of people.

Ten Ton Hammer: Are their tiers of loot, such as white, green, blue, and purple?

Drew Clowery: Yes. We call it rarity. The common loot is the normal things that you can’t equip, such as vendor loot, consumables, and trade skill items. Then we have uncommon loot, which is most of your wearable armor that gives you stat bonuses as well as rarer consumables. Then we have rare and epic loot, with rare being I worked really hard to get this and epic being that I worked really, really, really hard to get this. It’s a pretty standard thing. We didn’t want to fix what wasn’t broken.

Ten Ton Hammer: Is there anything else you want to tell our readers about equipment and itemization?

Drew Clowery: I think that a lot of time, itemization gets a little bit of a short shrift in the industry. It’s a job of staring at a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of running over numbers. But it’s really important. Loot is a really big element in these games. Getting new and exciting gear is really important. Like I’ve said, it’s one of my primary focuses here and I spend a lot of time working on it and trying to make our items as awesome as possible. We’re not giving it short shrift. We’re making it important and something that is a driving factor in some of our decisions.

Edited, Nov 30th 2010 7:20pm by Gremdar
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