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Rift: Innovative?Follow

#1 Dec 02 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Background: Hey all this guy is new to the forums and all, but wanted to raise the question of our impressions of Rift advancing the genre. I'm sure we've all seen much about the game with it's beautiful graphics and good ideas, but as I'm sure we've learned from recent games that sometimes good ideas don't always play out all that well.

So my question for discussion is what is it about Rift that is advancing the genre? Is it considered innovative in the MMO game? Here are some examples of features I've seen done

massive class branching (Asheron's Call-esq?)
zone pvp rifts (AION - CRAPPY)
Dynamic Worlds (guild wars 2? albeit still in production)
Race vs. Race. vs World (Warhammer Online)

And here's a follow up: How do the aspects of Rift that are advancing the genre want to keep us coming back to it for more?

Thanks in advance!
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#2 Dec 02 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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raptor675 wrote:
Background: Hey all this guy is new to the forums and all, but wanted to raise the question of our impressions of Rift advancing the genre. I'm sure we've all seen much about the game with it's beautiful graphics and good ideas, but as I'm sure we've learned from recent games that sometimes good ideas don't always play out all that well.

So my question for discussion is what is it about Rift that is advancing the genre? Is it considered innovative in the MMO game? Here are some examples of features I've seen done

It will advance them by actually implementing them well. While some of the aspects have been seen before, few of them have been woven together cleanly like they will be in Rift.



massive class branching (Asheron's Call-esq?)

Rift doesn't employ class "branching" Rather it employs reconfiguring one of 4 "callings" at will. That means there are only 4 true classes in the game. Everything else is up to the player to mix and match.

zone pvp rifts (AION - CRAPPY)

Nothing new here really, but it provides people a feature which is considered essential by many. There will be cross-server Rifts as well, which is becoming an expected feature. Expect it to be a slick implementation(The 3rd beta event will test PvP stuffs.)

Dynamic Worlds (guild wars 2? albeit still in production)

No offense, but this is one of the dumbest comparisons out there. They are both different types of games entirely. Rift is a AAA MMO in the vein of WoW or EQ2. Guild Wars 2 is like MMO Diablo, with small parties in lots of instances. Also, Guild Wars 2 will be released months if not years after Rift. Most importantly, THERE IS NO RAIDING IN GUILD WARS 2.

Also, the dynamic content in guild wars 2 will be instanced. Rift provides overland dynamic content, something that will be unique to it for quite a long time I believe.

Race vs. Race. vs World (Warhammer Online)

This is nothing new. It is totally WoW style PvP. I get the impression it is to appeal to a larger audience. The difference will lie in the rift system itself. Players can create rifts, which if done in opposing territory, will put markers on everyone's maps, leading them to it. PvP Mayhem.


And here's a follow up: How do the aspects of Rift that are advancing the genre want to keep us coming back to it for more?

One of the core tenets of rift is that it will be extremely polished at launch, with endgame content day 1. This is something that hasn't happened in a AAA MMO since perhaps WoW was released. This makes it something special in and of itself. There are alot of veteran MMO developers creating Rift and one of their guiding principles is eliminating things that aren't fun, which goes a lot farther than you might think.

The dynamic content system(Rifts) was built into the engine from the ground up. There will be nothing similar to this for an extremely long time.


Thanks in advance!
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Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 2:28am by Cyanix
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#3 Dec 02 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
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Cyanix wrote:
(The entire 3rd beta event is to test PvP stuffs.)



Um pardon but far as I know the entire 3rd beta isnt just PvP. Yes it is both factions but no where I have seen it officially saying it is just pvp. I am sure there will be a pvp server, but i was under the impression this beta would also have a pve server.
So if you could post where you got this information from that would be nice.


Also Cyan i think you are Drastically under estimating GW2. I have been following the game very closely and love what I am seeing. If it is not your cup of tea thats fine but please dont bash it just because you dont think its the best thing ever to come out in a game.
I mean I agree its gots some flaws so does Rift, its not one hundred percent unique neither is rift.
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#4 Dec 02 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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That wasn't intended as an end-all be-all statement, I didn't say it would be only PvP.

And no, I don't think I'm underestimating GW2. I think it will have massive immediate success, but the servers will die out quickly, similar to what happened to the original. I don't think a game without a real PvE endgame will have long term success. But, the real point I was getting at is that to compare the two does not give a fair shake to either of them, they are entirely different. Unfortunately, journalists will continue to compare them.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 10:52pm by Cyanix
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#5 Dec 02 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Default
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Cyanix wrote:
That wasn't intended as an end-all be-all statement, I didn't say it would be only PvP.

And no, I don't think I'm underestimating GW2. I think it will have massive immediate success, but the servers will die out quickly, similar to what happened to the original. I don't think a game without a real PvE endgame will have long term success. But, the real point I was getting at is that to compare the two does not give a fair shake to either of them, they are entirely different. Unfortunately, journalists will continue to compare them.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 10:52pm by Cyanix


Not trying to be a ****, but yeah you did. You said the entire 3rd beta would be to test pvp stuff, keyword being entire.

Not that it's a big deal or anything.

Anyways, I don't think Rift's main selling point is innovation. Yes it does some things we don't see often (if at all) Rift in themselves, I've never seen before. Dynamic content seems to be where the genre is going (the next generation MMO if you will). Also it's not innovation and it's a bit off-topic, but Rift promises a polished game at release, and I think they might actually keep that promise, the game is just getting to beta and it looks better than most games at launch. Can't wait to play it tomorrow morning, I'm pumped.

I wanted to add a few things about GW2. From what I read, GW2 is supposed to have an open and persistent world, not all instanced as you were saying, where did you get your information? I could very well be wrong, I'm not a Guild Wars 2 guru by any means, but it was to my understanding that this was one of the biggest changes being made to the game. Also, I've read that there will be raids. Again, if you've got some sources I'd love to read them, I've already did some searching around google.



Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 11:35pm by z0mbi
#6 Dec 02 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
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"The entire 3rd beta event is to test PvP stuffs." is different than "The entire 3rd beta event is to only test PvP stuffs."

Not to be a **** or anything.
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#7 Dec 02 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Cyanix wrote:
"The entire 3rd beta event is to test PvP stuffs." is different than "The entire 3rd beta event is to only test PvP stuffs."

Not to be a **** or anything.


Actually it's not different at all.
#8 Dec 02 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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You may want to check your glasses, I think you might need a new prescription. Or maybe some bacon. Bacon always helps.
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#9 Dec 02 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes Rift is innovative. The game taking a lot of features present in many different MMOs and putting them all into one package.

Whether or not the innovations in Rift take hold and advance the genre is a question no one can answer, at least not for a few years.
#10 Dec 03 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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It seems like Rift is taking the best aspects from the well known/successful games and putting them all into one game. Should be interesting to say the least ^^
#11 Dec 03 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Cyanix can u pls change the color to ur post to something else ? Can't distinguishe yellow well !! Thx in advance !!
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#12 Dec 03 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Default
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Cyanix wrote:
You may want to check your glasses, I think you might need a new prescription. Or maybe some bacon. Bacon always helps.


Like I said, it's really not a big deal but because you keep dragging it on (more importantly, you keep making smart *** comments) I guess I really need to break it down for you.


"The entire 3rd beta event is to test PvP stuffs." is different than "The entire 3rd beta event is to only test PvP stuffs."

and I say, it's not different and heres why.

en·tire/enˈtī(ə)r/Adjective
1. With no part left out; whole.

What you have said is that the 3rd beta event is entirely(all of it, whole, there is no room for anything else) used to test pvp stuffs. You do not need to say only test pvp stuffs because that would be redundant, you've already made it clear as to what the 3rd beta events purpose is for.

Now where's my ******* bacon?
#13 Dec 03 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Zombi-You can have bacon as soon as you stop trolling, I made it quite clear what I meant.

Edit:
Just noticed your revised comments. Regarding the persistent GW2 world:
http://casualdoes.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/guild-wars-2-no-it-wont-be-instanced-like-the-first-game-yes-you-can-jump/

Regarding raids, there are no large scale PvE WoW or EQ2 style dungeon raids. All dungeons in GW2 will be limited to 5 man parties. There will be large scale battles of sorts, more like events in the major overlands, many players against a dragon for instance. These events and the PvP arenas will be the only large scale endgame content. Most of this info is from browsing guild wars guru.

Agrio-I'll switch it now to something else. I use default forums, so the background is dark. If contrast is an issue, you can always highlight text too.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 4:26am by Cyanix
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#14 Dec 03 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Default
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Cyanix - I would definitely say check your facts on GW2.

Thanks to the people who offered their opinion and answered the question rather than just regurgitating facts.

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#15 Dec 03 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Only time will tell if Rift is really innovative.
But from what Ive seen in videos, and read on the forums, they really have a good idea of what they want.
And it will probably be innovative, lets hope for the best.
#16 Dec 05 2010 at 4:31 AM Rating: Default
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They definitely seem to know what they're doing. It's possible they're taking some ideas from other places, but they're entire point is to remove anything which isn't fun from the game. That means their implementation of any ideas, whether theirs or not, will be fun-centric, which will definitely spur innovation, as it isn't as simple as removing everything not fun from an idea. Of course, only time will see if they can actually stick on track, make everything fun, and still listen to the community enough to become the next-generation MMO they want to be.
#17 Dec 05 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Sometimes "innovation" can be subjective; can mean alot of different things.

Starcraft, Command & Conquer, games like them, FPS games, etc, all play similar yet somewhat innovate from each other.

Dragon Age, WOW, WAR, etc, all use similar action bar combat interface.

I'm not really sure how to answer the question.
What I will say is that Rift is not a complete radical departure from mmo or rpg gameplay we know, yet there are unique, new flavors to it.
#18 Dec 06 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
I don't see rift as a terribly innovative game. Although, I admit this is from someone who has not been in beta, and has never played or even seen the game played. I see rift as a VERY polished product, that is well thought out and well executed. It's the next iteration in the fantasy themepark mmo. Is it new and exiting? Yes. Is it a great product? Yes. Is it original? not so much.

I don't think it needs to be though.
#19 Dec 10 2010 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Cyanix wrote:

[/Skyblue]
Dynamic Worlds (guild wars 2? albeit still in production)

No offense, but this is one of the dumbest comparisons out there. They are both different types of games entirely. Rift is a AAA MMO in the vein of WoW or EQ2. Guild Wars 2 is like MMO Diablo, with small parties in lots of instances. Also, Guild Wars 2 will be released months if not years after Rift. Most importantly, THERE IS NO RAIDING IN GUILD WARS 2.

Also, the dynamic content in guild wars 2 will be instanced. Rift provides overland dynamic content, something that will be unique to it for quite a long time I believe.


GW2 is fully persistent, instances will be dungeons (yeah, 5 man dungeons, like dungeons are supposed to be) and the personal story content. And no, the dynamic content in GW2 is also persistent, not instanced. Dynamic Events will cascade through different areas even. So yeah, the comparison is pretty plausible, except Rift's rifts (from beta feedback) are more static and predictable.
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