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Lack of UI mods--good or bad?Follow

#52 Feb 28 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I just want recount. Sometimes I don't think the dps in my groups are pulling their weight.
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#53 Feb 28 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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no i havent read this entire thread.

Transmigration wrote:
I just want recount. Sometimes I don't think the dps in my groups are pulling their weight.


Heh, see thats the thing though... That leads to people thinking there are 3 roles: Tank, heal, DPS. There are a lot more options than those 3 in this game and that, imo, is like the entire purpose of the game. Instead you should be concerned with whether or not your group succeeds. If your group fails you should be able to know what/who the problem was without a meter.

And this is from a person who loved damage meters in WoW... How many roles did WoW have? 3. tank, healer, dps.

Im all for UI mods that just give you info that you already have access too in a more creative or customizable way (id love a good all in 1 bag mod, or the ability to have an action bar with only 4 buttons on it).
#54 Feb 28 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
no i havent read this entire thread.

Transmigration wrote:
I just want recount. Sometimes I don't think the dps in my groups are pulling their weight.


Heh, see thats the thing though... That leads to people thinking there are 3 roles: Tank, heal, DPS.


Alright then, I just want recount Sometimes I don't think the dps in my groups are pulling their weight to monitor my own dps against other pure dps souls.
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#55 Feb 28 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah sadly most people would use it for epeen flexing and putting people down.
#56 Feb 28 2011 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
no i havent read this entire thread.

Transmigration wrote:
I just want recount. Sometimes I don't think the dps in my groups are pulling their weight.


Heh, see thats the thing though... That leads to people thinking there are 3 roles: Tank, heal, DPS. There are a lot more options than those 3 in this game and that, imo, is like the entire purpose of the game. Instead you should be concerned with whether or not your group succeeds. If your group fails you should be able to know what/who the problem was without a meter.

And this is from a person who loved damage meters in WoW... How many roles did WoW have? 3. tank, healer, dps.

Im all for UI mods that just give you info that you already have access too in a more creative or customizable way (id love a good all in 1 bag mod, or the ability to have an action bar with only 4 buttons on it).


It's hard to tell without a meter. Sometimes it's obvious that you're just not burning things down fast enough. Sometimes it's clear that your tank just doesn't know what they're doing. And sometimes (speaking as a tank) it's obvious that your healer isn't getting the job done. I've encountered all three situations so far beta beta events and now headstart, and I wholeheartedly agree that you don't always need a meter to be able to gauge what's not working.

There's a fine line between customizing your character to your liking and showing up to a group with your buttersheep build thinking you're neat and awesome because you can pewpew 9 basic attacks with an equal number of points distributed in each of your three souls.

There are already two external parsers available for Rift and Trion is working on implementing addon support. After that, damage/threat meters will follow. It's pretty much a given. The key will be whether or not the "damage" meter is robust enough to show the big picture.
#57 Feb 28 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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In WoW I was really big on addons, both cosmetic and otherwise. I liked Skada or other damage meters just to check on my performance and see if a small change I made in my rotation or gearing had a positive effect. I can do without those meters in Rift though I do believe they offer advantages in helping to determine how to maximize my damage output (while performing that role).

UI additions I would really like to see in Rift are cosmetic in nature and really just things that I've become accustomed to. An inventory addon such as Bagnon would be great! Grid style raid frames would also be nice. Either way the game is very playable as is and I'm not at all upset about the lack of addon support.
#58 Mar 01 2011 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Jethrotroll wrote:
UI additions I would really like to see in Rift are cosmetic in nature and really just things that I've become accustomed to. An inventory addon such as Bagnon would be great! Grid style raid frames would also be nice. Either way the game is very playable as is and I'm not at all upset about the lack of addon support.


Mail and Auctioning addons are sorely missed [I don't remember the exact spelling of my random name generated other characters, I'm going to write them on a sheet of paper nearby so I can send in game mail. :( [The only in-game place I know to see other characters names is in the settings import dialog.]

The Auction House is very hard to use efficiently. I'm not sure if they wanted to discourage that, or if it just a lower priority to add features to it, or if they will let addons fill that gap when/if they are allowed.

Just trying to post one item is like WoW without addons; type the item name into the search box to see if any are on the AH, sort by Unit Cost because the sort order is not saved between logons, switch to posting and put up your auction, doing your own math if you are putting up a stack of something. At least WoW added unit price ability for posting. And why does the auction search clear itself every time you search? Makes it painful when you typo, or when you have several similar "Ephemeral Shadestone of the ______" to look up.

DoT/Buff Timers would be great, too, because many of my builds quite a few buffs/debuffs to keep track of, and the default UI makes your own buffs, especially, difficult to watch and make sure you have all of your own up.
#59 Mar 02 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
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DoT/Buff Timers would be great, too, because many of my builds quite a few buffs/debuffs to keep track of, and the default UI makes your own buffs, especially, difficult to watch and make sure you have all of your own up

No, you don't need the add ons to track these thing, you need to track them yourself. It is alot easier to cast 3 instant dots and run in Pvp than it is to hard cast against other players with interrupts and gap closers.

So now you have your precious custom UI tracking dots for you, and basically Telling you when to reapply. That is a competitve advantage. There is no need for it, no place for it.

If you aren't the type of person that can track a rotation of dots on 3 seperate mobs in your head, and keep and organized order of what needs to be done, then play another class.

Keep your head in the game!

If your job is that of a buffer/support/dps, then it is YOUR responsiblity to make sure comrades are buffed, not a custom UI's responsiblity to ALERT you when something is dispelled, needs to be dispelled. Pay attention to what is going on and you will be fine.

#60 Mar 18 2011 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I for one miss modding a whole lot.

I'm used to mods which automatically undercuts prices on the AH, and the way i have to use the AH without it is killing me.

I miss dmgmeter a whole lot, as a DPS:er in wow and in rift i like to be able to see that proof that i actually contribute enough to the groups i join, this should be in the game.

I miss being able to hide bars with the possibility of showing them when i mouseOver.

I wanna remove that **** bar showing my hp in the middle of the screen, but keep the bars over the enemies heads, why can't i do this?

I miss getting to have all bags show as one bigass bag.

We miss out on so much by not allowing addons in this game. It's a shame.

Just for a reference, here is my UI in WoW (at least 5 hidden bars with noncritical buttons like professions):
http://i.imgur.com/TuO3m.jpg

And here's what i could do in Rift:
http://i.imgur.com/Ppbca.jpg

Not too bad in means of the purely cosmetic sense, but this game lacks those money features mentioned above, and not to mention the stuff that creative people can come up with that nobody has even thought about yet.
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#61 Mar 18 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Or what would be cool is some kind of mod that allowed for a good voice chat program like Vent to be integrated with the UI, if that would even be possible.


Check out mumble. It already integrates great into the UI (and that of most other DX10 games) through an overlay, no mod needed there.

Quote:
It basically was a giant grid of the raid and it told you who needed what by color code and all he had to do was left click on their name/box and it would automatically choose the most efficient heal to use on them and right click to cleanse them. So while the rest of the raid was actually trying, he was playing whack-a-mole healer and coming off like a superstar when he actually sucked really bad without that particular addon. There ARE a few mods that I think are "ok" though, the ones that only help with raid coordination and communication but even those shouldn't be a necessity.


I don't think your healer was "exposed" to anything other than the fact that he was used to healing in one way and then had it taken away without having any time to adjust, the learning curve is undoubtedly longer than a couple of hours of a raid to re-learn how to heal using a completely different technique.

Blizzard has gotten more restrictive on exactly WHAT information is sent to the user, but the addon you're talking about is most likely grid/clique, healbot, or vuhdo. There was a time when addons could "automatically" choose the best heal for you to cast-- those days are gone. The are basically glorified unit frames now, and almost essential to the healing experience, even in Rift. Sure, you can make mouseover macros for Rift to do essentially the exact same thing with the raid frames, but the raid frames, frankly, aren't that great. I have a problem seeing what debuff is up on somebody because the icon is particularly small.

Trion can certainly limit the information given through the API to addons-- personally I would love at least some sort of Auction House addon, which is pretty clunky right now.

Common users often come up with the best/most useful UI additions and then Trion is welcome to implement them to everybody else if it is that good. So much of the modern WoW UI originated with addons.

EDIT: The one thing that is SORELY missed are decent name plates. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to tell if a tank has aggro right now, or to easily switch to another mob when me, as a tank, doesn't have aggro (i.e. click on the name plates). The golden standard that I reference to is Tidy Plates/Threat Plates in WoW, but even WoWs default name plates are 100% more useful than Rifts at the moment.

Edited, Mar 18th 2011 9:50am by Baptism2
#62 Mar 18 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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cnas wrote:
I
And here's what i could do in Rift:
http://i.imgur.com/Ppbca.jpg


That actually looks really nice :)

inb4 "what mods are you using!?" oh wait.

Edited, Mar 18th 2011 7:29am by KTurner
#63 Mar 19 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Baptism2 wrote:

EDIT: The one thing that is SORELY missed are decent name plates. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to tell if a tank has aggro right now, or to easily switch to another mob when me, as a tank, doesn't have aggro (i.e. click on the name plates). The golden standard that I reference to is Tidy Plates/Threat Plates in WoW, but even WoWs default name plates are 100% more useful than Rifts at the moment.


I bet there are hundreds of things like this, where there's just that thing that u wanted differently. I just wanna go back in time and interrupt that meeting that must have been held at some point where they decided to skip API support.

For me it's definitely the AH. I got over a 100 items on sale non stop, and it's a NIGHTMARE to handle in this game. I also miss all the small neat sh*t u can do with addons. Sometimes i just go on curse and don't know what I want, and I end up finding a bunch of fun addons to WoW.

I love this game, but not allowing addons is slowly killing it for me.

KTurner wrote:
cnas wrote:
I
And here's what i could do in Rift:
http://i.imgur.com/Ppbca.jpg


That actually looks really nice :)

inb4 "what mods are you using!?" oh wait.


Touché, Touché!


Edited, Mar 19th 2011 7:47pm by cnas
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#64 Mar 20 2011 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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seacorb wrote:
macro's/binds > mods

He was used to using this healermod(can't remember what its called) that made it so easy to play the game I can't imagine how he didn't get bored.


The current limitations on the UI are why I support UI mods and even heal mods. Maybe this person sucked because he has been click casting for years. that is not at all the same as mouseover macros. I was able to bind my heals to click casts on the unit frames which in turn made me more situationally aware. In this game you can't choose to make your left mouse button cast a heal when hovering over a portrait, it is preference and style.

It in no way made him a crappy healer. Him not having access to that particular addon would be the equivalent of if they took every macro out of wow. how would the mouseover pros do then?

As for the UI in rift from a healer perspective they are severely lacking. You have gigantic portraits with tiny green bars. If you resize the frame (the only customization currently allowed) you have bigger green bars but huge overblown portraits you can't get rid of. The raid frames are better but you cannot track HoTs with them currently.

Allowing third party addons would help ease the burden off of the devs in resolving these issues when I'm sure they have bigger issues to work on at this stage of the release.

again for the record. click casting heals does not equal a bad player anymore than using a focus macro does.
#65 Mar 21 2011 at 1:22 AM Rating: Default
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I JUST WANT METERS!!!!!!
#66 Mar 21 2011 at 3:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Meters is actually one thing I don't miss in this game.

Sure, I catch myself glancing at the top-left corner of the screen (where Recount is in my WoW UI), but then I remember that it doesn't matter and focus on having fun experimenting.

Of course, I'm not a fail player, so I can experiment and still pull my weight. I imagine others might have issues doing so. Still, I've not been in a group where we had to disband because we couldn't continue. Sure, wiping five times on the werewolf in DD because the healer couldn't keep up the HPS isn't necessarily fun, but there was no moaning and ******** about numbers, which usually leads to a disband in WoW. Eventually, the healer managed to push out the required HPS and we beat the boss.

At least one more healer learned how to play that way, instead of the tank going "nub heals" and the group disbanding.
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#67 Mar 21 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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Qwn wrote:
Pink Stuff


****, that made my eyes water.

Edit: Aside from Auctioneer and yes, Recount, I miss Gatherer.

Edited, Mar 21st 2011 4:46pm by Vorkosigan
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#68 Mar 21 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I used Healbot in WoW and loved it.

Anyone who has healed using an add-on in a raid or when you're group is slightly under geared for an instance understands that every second counts, and so does having an easy to read UI that let's you easily recognize who needs a heal.

Rift's is functional, but it is a little difficult to see who needs a heal in a 5 man group, raids are easier because they are all clumped together.

It's also very easy to miss a second or two in switching targets and selecting the correct spell in heated moments.

Having a healing mod doesn't necessarily make it "easier" to heal, it just makes user error less likely and puts the healers skill in selecting the right spell for the right job much easier.
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#69 Mar 21 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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What I really want is to be able to have more than one row of buttons. Flipping through the friggin things is REALLY annoying. I'd rather have ALL my buttons there on the screen. I loved my old WoW button mods where I could have buttons in two rows on the bottom, the right and the left sides of the screen. :P

Unless someone knows that there's already a way of doing this, I'd love for this to happen.

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#70 Mar 21 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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Trefan wrote:
What I really want is to be able to have more than one row of buttons. Flipping through the friggin things is REALLY annoying. I'd rather have ALL my buttons there on the screen. I loved my old WoW button mods where I could have buttons in two rows on the bottom, the right and the left sides of the screen. :P

Unless someone knows that there's already a way of doing this, I'd love for this to happen.

Trefan


Wish granted: Esc -> Settings -> Interface -> Action Bars -> Bottom Action Bars/Side Action Bars

You can use the layout editor to determine where these bars are on the screen, but that's how you enable them

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#71 Mar 22 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm in favor of UI mods. A lot of people point out that RIFT already has a lot of customization, but they really aren't going to be able to have the level of customization I want without making it overwhelming for most people.
For example, I want the ability to control how buffs are displayed, ideally being able to sort some in to a separate window based on multiple factors so I don't keep to try to find all of my <1 minute buffs in the middle of a bunch of hour long buffs I don't need to worry about

I want to be able to use Regular Expressions in the inventory search. I doubt Trion wants to personally deal with those.

Even with with all the customization we have now, I still can't put all of my bags in one window, which is a really nice feature.

I think a lot of people complaining about addons (I'll even go so far as to say almost all of them) are thinking solely about Addons in WoW. However, this is not the only game to have major addons. Everquest II has a nice XML based UI system, which isn't able to do things like Gear Score or recount which people are complaining about, but still allows lots of customization beyond what games have on their own.

You'll also see people complaining about Addons playing the game for you. As a whole, when mods have started doing that, the devs have taken steps to alter the API to prevent that. Addons can't make decisions for you. All they can do is change the way the information is presented to you. If changing the way information is presented it making the game significatly easier, this in and of itself is a problem with the game since the difficulty is not part of the game but rather the user having to fight against the UI. This is commonly referred to as Fake Difficulty, and it is the only kind of difficulty Addons can remove in a well made API*

*Obviously if an API is too generous like WoWs was at launch Addons can do things for you. Trion has already stated they won't release an Addon API unless it is up to their standards, so it looks like they are already aware of this.
#72 Mar 23 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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while i don't want (or need) mods that play the game for me. i'd love to be able to customize the ui elements. get rid of the 3d character models. i really don't care what my pug teammate's faces look like. and i'd like to clean up and/or eliminate some of the chrome around elements. it just takes up valuable screen space.
#73 Mar 23 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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I'm actually pretty happy with the UI as it stands. I managed to replicate nearly exactly my complex version interface from WoW. (with way too many buttons thanks to Bartender)

I'd rather not see an auctioneer type thing as it takes over the economy. I'd like to see some of the stuff from that mod (as far as more robust interface) but we do not need the "5% below market average" thing.

I'd like a hyperorganized bag mod for sure, and something better for mail, but it's not killing the experience for me.

The one thing I'd like to see in the end is better manipulation of health/energy bars for self, target, focus and ToT because I don't care about the portrait for the most part I only need the name and bars.
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#74 Mar 23 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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SernAkai wrote:
I'm in favor of UI mods. A lot of people point out that RIFT already has a lot of customization, but they really aren't going to be able to have the level of customization I want without making it overwhelming for most people.
For example, I want the ability to control how buffs are displayed, ideally being able to sort some in to a separate window based on multiple factors so I don't keep to try to find all of my <1 minute buffs in the middle of a bunch of hour long buffs I don't need to worry about

I want to be able to use Regular Expressions in the inventory search. I doubt Trion wants to personally deal with those.

Even with with all the customization we have now, I still can't put all of my bags in one window, which is a really nice feature.

I think a lot of people complaining about addons (I'll even go so far as to say almost all of them) are thinking solely about Addons in WoW. However, this is not the only game to have major addons. Everquest II has a nice XML based UI system, which isn't able to do things like Gear Score or recount which people are complaining about, but still allows lots of customization beyond what games have on their own.

You'll also see people complaining about Addons playing the game for you. As a whole, when mods have started doing that, the devs have taken steps to alter the API to prevent that. Addons can't make decisions for you. All they can do is change the way the information is presented to you. If changing the way information is presented it making the game significatly easier, this in and of itself is a problem with the game since the difficulty is not part of the game but rather the user having to fight against the UI. This is commonly referred to as Fake Difficulty, and it is the only kind of difficulty Addons can remove in a well made API*

*Obviously if an API is too generous like WoWs was at launch Addons can do things for you. Trion has already stated they won't release an Addon API unless it is up to their standards, so it looks like they are already aware of this.


Actually, the more lucid complaints about add-ons "playing the game for you" seem to gravitate more towards the ones that combine re-displaying things with macro commands on certain keyboard and/or mouse click combinations. If you put it in the context of "OMG, Macros play the game for you" then it sounds silly, considering that the action bar is a macro bar (unless you actually open up the ability window and use abilities off of that), but put them under the umbrella of "Addons"...
#75 Mar 26 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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UI is perfectly manageable as is.
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#76 Mar 28 2011 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I'm in favor of mods that gather information or allow for a bit more tweaking of the UI.

I like mods that gather info such as Recount in WoW because as a raid leader it allowed me to identify where I personally failing and also other short comings. At the very lest I would like a parser that i could pull my combat log from the game put it into a site or run it through a program so I could analyze different dps, healing, mitigation more in depth. While this tool potentially be misused by a few retards but to Guild/Raid leaders its awesome tool that lets you analyze what your raid is doing and where it could be improved.

As for UI mods

I currently play a healer and find the party interface very clunky. I have set up mouse over macros and binding keys to em with my mouse because this is how I played a healer in wow and taking the extra time to click on someone before casting a heal at times could lead to a wipe or make the fight last longer then intended. I have also already moved and shrunk the party interface so that i don't get tunnel vision looking at the top left hand of my screen. Same was done with the raid ui. However even after doing all this I run into bugs here and there such as not being able to target some one with a heal, until I targeted the guy in the field and made a focus for him. And since I shrunk down the two ui(party and raid) it makes it hard to identify when someone has a dispel-able debfuff. Or as a Warden its hard to keep track of hots.

I would like to see either something like Clique/grid or Vuhdoh. Something that consolidates the party and raid ui. To save on both screen space, and still feeds me info either by recoloring the persons frame or buy making a more noticeable. While adding functionality with mouse over clicks without having to make a macro for your every heal then assign it to a bar.

As for DPS Dot/buff monitors are awesome. Something that turned your dots into a sliding bar similar to forte xorsist would be awesome. Another thing that could help is something similar to power auras to let you know when a specific buff came up so your not watching your Floating combat text for it.

Yes there are those very few addon's that told you how to play the game such as rotation suggestions (shot&awe/squack&awe to name a few). These add on's did not help the player become better but rather made them Dependant upon them to do any dps.

As with what many people said any addon that plays the game for you is bad, and where usually broke by devs. However ones that gather and display info in different formats ain't game breaking.

Sitting a few things some people said in the rest of this post

Tracking when you weren't a tracker-This was broke almost instantly in vanilla in WoW atleast.

Macro/binds>mods-To an extent aren't you with these macros and bind basically creating the same thing that a mod is doing? take for example what I did with my healer.(mouseover macros/resizing/moving my ui around) I basically copied the format that Vuhdoh had in WoW. However my set up is a bit clunky atm

The ingame Ui is very customizable- Well this is true it could use a few more tweaks. For example:While setting up my ui I noticed that the base bar took up a lot of room when it shouldn't have to, Yes I could add/resize and move other bars, but I could not change how many buttons across a bar was. Turing a 1x10 bar into a 2x5 would be awesome. The stack feature they have while useful in some cases got annoying when I was trying to fine tune positions. Also while in a raid not being able to see peoples energy pools would be annoying as a raid lead. I like being able to take a quick glance and see my healers and dps mana pools to see if the fight is progressing. Or will my healers run out of mana.

Basically What I'm saying is UI/information gathering mods are fine, however any mod that tells you how to play the game or plays it for you is bad.
#77 Mar 28 2011 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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cnas wrote:

Just for a reference, here is my UI in WoW (at least 5 hidden bars with noncritical buttons like professions):
http://i.imgur.com/TuO3m.jpg

And here's what i could do in Rift:
http://i.imgur.com/Ppbca.jpg


I'm curious on how you got your bars to show a different amount of buttons per row or are those just multiple bars placed and you just got the unused buttons hidden.

Edited, Mar 28th 2011 5:34am by Sophie167
#78 Mar 28 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Sophie167 wrote:
cnas wrote:

Just for a reference, here is my UI in WoW (at least 5 hidden bars with noncritical buttons like professions):
http://i.imgur.com/TuO3m.jpg

And here's what i could do in Rift:
http://i.imgur.com/Ppbca.jpg


I'm curious on how you got your bars to show a different amount of buttons per row or are those just multiple bars placed and you just got the unused buttons hidden.

Edited, Mar 28th 2011 5:34am by Sophie167




I'm not enterily sure what you're asking, but I bet this picture will answer how i have done the layout!

http://i.imgur.com/aCeiq.jpg

Edited, Mar 29th 2011 12:23am by cnas
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#79 Mar 28 2011 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Thats what I figured got my hopes up a bit lol. What i was basically asking was if you had turned a 1x10 row into a 2x5 or 3x3 box. oh well i guess i can do something sneaky like that. I don't know if having empty buttons overtop of the raid ui would interfere with me healing someone...something i'm going to have to try
#80 Mar 28 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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Sophie167 wrote:
Thats what I figured got my hopes up a bit lol. What i was basically asking was if you had turned a 1x10 row into a 2x5 or 3x3 box. oh well i guess i can do something sneaky like that. I don't know if having empty buttons overtop of the raid ui would interfere with me healing someone...something i'm going to have to try


It shouldn't if you lock your actionbar buttons
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#81 Mar 29 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't understand this constant hatred and bashing towards UI mods from some of the posters in this thread. UI mods only serve to enhance the game from a personal perspective. They do not play the game for you nor do game developers approve of mods that do (especially Blizzard). Some of the users here are taking jabs at WoW players but it's only displaying their blatant ignorance. Blizzard doesn't allow users to use mods that choose what spell to use for you and if they do find you using one, you're permanently banned. For those of you who think mods are bad, you're completely missing the gigantic feedback for game developers that it provides. The developers are able to see firsthand where their shortcomings are by looking at whos using what mods and why. It provides them with insight on ways for them to improve their game. Between Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm, you can see drastic changes to the UI which was implemented due to the addons that players were using. A great example for Rift which I notice immediay is that it's raid UI is severely lacking. HoTs are impossible to track for those who use mouseover macros because the raid UI doesn't display them whatsoever. Even though a lot of you are riding on the fact that the original UI is highly customizable, it isn't. It's highly customizable in the sense that you can adjust appearance and font size, placement, visibility, etc., but it is missing the diversity to show specific players what they want to see. As a healer, I don't want to see all of the buffs on my target; I want too see my HoTs and shields only. This is only one example.

As for damage mods, yeah, they can be abused but if used properly, they enhance your performance dramatically. You have a realtime display of information to show you where you went wrong at each time interval during the fight. In order to not abuse it though, I think they should make the DPS addon a personal one that can't display information publically in-game so players can't abuse others with it.

By allowing users access to create mods, it essentially takes their game design team from say 50 people and opens it up to their entire player-base.

Edited, Mar 29th 2011 10:41am by Gillyweeds
#82 Mar 29 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Gillyweeds wrote:
A great example for Rift which I notice immediay is that it's raid UI is severely lacking. HoTs are impossible to track for those who use mouseover macros because the raid UI doesn't display them whatsoever. Even though a lot of you are riding on the fact that the original UI is highly customizable, it isn't. It's highly customizable in the sense that you can adjust appearance and font size, placement, visibility, etc., but it is missing the diversity to show specific players what they want to see. As a healer, I don't want to see all of the buffs on my target; I want too see my HoTs and shields only. This is only one example.

As for damage mods, yeah, they can be abused but if used properly, they enhance your performance dramatically. You have a realtime display of information to show you where you went wrong at each time interval during the fight. In order to not abuse it though, I think they should make the DPS addon a personal one that can't display information publically in-game so players can't abuse others with it.

By allowing users access to create mods, it essentially takes their game design team from say 50 people and opens it up to their entire player-base.

Edited, Mar 29th 2011 10:41am by Gillyweeds


Hey another healer that agrees with me ^,^ in terms of the lacking raid ui and even party ui.

As for dmg meters. Yes they can lead to a bit of an epeen fight, however as a raid lead this is an essential tool that helps identify where your pure dps classes short comings, your healer short comings and can identify your support classes uptime on buffs/debuffs. I recently found a combat log parser that works fairly well but having this ui in game would be nicer.


#83 Mar 30 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
8 posts
Sophie167 wrote:
Thats what I figured got my hopes up a bit lol. What i was basically asking was if you had turned a 1x10 row into a 2x5 or 3x3 box. oh well i guess i can do something sneaky like that. I don't know if having empty buttons overtop of the raid ui would interfere with me healing someone...something i'm going to have to try

Yep I wish I didn't have to cheat like this, in WoW I got 3 by 3 so i don't have to overlap my minimap like in Rift.

About the overlapping issue. I noticed that my minimap randomly gets non-clickable, depending on whether my minimap is considered to be above or below my button bars. My guess is that it's random depending on what loads last when my ui loads or something, I haven't found any other reason for this behaviour.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 12:36pm by cnas
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#84 Mar 30 2011 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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An argument i don't get is that addons would make the game easymode. It's ironic, at least for me as a DPSer, since the macros you can make in Rift are rediculously strong. I can make a macro that accepts several casts, and prioritates the spell that's the strongest, that's of course impossible to do in today's WoW. It kind of reminds me of the addon AutoRogue that existed back in vanilla WoW that casted SnD automatically. This kind of automation is not what anyone really wants, but it's already accepted in Rift in the form of insane macros.

What i want from addons is automation in looting my mail. I want an addon that helps me with automating, calculating and undercutting for me in the AH, it's rediculous that I have to sit with windows calculator because I know what one Mahogany Log is worth on AH and i got 36 of them or something. It's just a pain to have to do, especially when I got a full bag of it.

These "small things" are what i want from addons. I like playing the AH but it's a pain in the *** in Rift unfortunately.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 9:53pm by cnas
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#85 Mar 30 2011 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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cnas wrote:
An argument i don't get it that addons would make the game easymode. It's ironic, at least for me as a DPSer, since the macros you can make in Rift are rediculously strong. I can make a macro that accepts several casts, and prioritates the spell that's the strongest, that's of course impossible to do in today's WoW. It kind of reminds me of the addon AutoRogue that existed back in vanilla WoW that casted SnD automatically. This kind of automation is not what anyone really wants, but it's already accepted in Rift in the form of insane macros.

What i want from addons is automation in looting my mail. I want an addon that helps me with automating, calculating and undercutting for me in the AH, it's rediculous that I have to sit with windows calculator because I know what one Mahogany Log is worth on AH and i got 36 of them or something. It's just a pain to have to do, especially when I got a full bag of it.

These "small things" are what i want from addons. I like playing the AH but it's a pain in the *** in Rift unfortunately.



I hear ya on the AH thing...I think thats why not many peps have stuff up on the ah atleast on my server when I was doing some random searching through for some upgrades to gear.
#86 Mar 30 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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cnas wrote:
An argument i don't get it that addons would make the game easymode. It's ironic, at least for me as a DPSer, since the macros you can make in Rift are rediculously strong. I can make a macro that accepts several casts, and prioritates the spell that's the strongest, that's of course impossible to do in today's WoW. It kind of reminds me of the addon AutoRogue that existed back in vanilla WoW that casted SnD automatically. This kind of automation is not what anyone really wants, but it's already accepted in Rift in the form of insane macros.


The reason people are making these claims is because they have no idea what they're talking about and try to chime in by jumping on a blind bandwagon.
#87 Mar 30 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Gillyweeds wrote:
The reason people are making these claims is because they have no idea what they're talking about and try to chime in by jumping on a blind bandwagon.

As opposed to making brash generalizations about an entire position? A lot of you are just as bad as the people dead set against ui mods.

Cliche as it may be, but the truth is in the middle. Game shouldn't be clunky and frustrating to play; game developers aren't perfect and do make mistakes when designing interfaces. As users gain increased ability to customize their interface, they gain increased ability to fix these errors. However at the same time there is a trade off. The skill cap also decreases in what is already a genre that requires fairly little skill. Having a program show melee deadzones or count timers for a stunlock removes the ability of players to show their skill, because it allows anyone to pull off otherwise difficult tactics with ease.

Taking ui customization too far hurts a game. When everything is made so easy to do that anyone can do it, everyone plays at the skill cap. That is, everyone plays their role as effectively as it can possibly be played; it is impossible to be a better player than they are. When ui mods make it easy for everyone to hit skill cap, you no longer matter as an individual. All that matters is gear. You bring nothing extra to a group as a tank that the dumbest ****** in the same gear doesn't also bring to the group as a tank. You are replaceable. You are interchangeable. The success of your pve raid isn't determined by the decisions you make, but solely by teh gear you wear, because you're already making the best decisions possible.
#88 Mar 30 2011 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Gillyweeds wrote:
The reason people are making these claims is because they have no idea what they're talking about and try to chime in by jumping on a blind bandwagon.

As opposed to making brash generalizations about an entire position? A lot of you are just as bad as the people dead set against ui mods.

Cliche as it may be, but the truth is in the middle. Game shouldn't be clunky and frustrating to play; game developers aren't perfect and do make mistakes when designing interfaces. As users gain increased ability to customize their interface, they gain increased ability to fix these errors. However at the same time there is a trade off. The skill cap also decreases in what is already a genre that requires fairly little skill. Having a program show melee deadzones or count timers for a stunlock removes the ability of players to show their skill, because it allows anyone to pull off otherwise difficult tactics with ease.

Taking ui customization too far hurts a game. When everything is made so easy to do that anyone can do it, everyone plays at the skill cap. That is, everyone plays their role as effectively as it can possibly be played; it is impossible to be a better player than they are. When ui mods make it easy for everyone to hit skill cap, you no longer matter as an individual. All that matters is gear. You bring nothing extra to a group as a tank that the dumbest ****** in the same gear doesn't also bring to the group as a tank. You are replaceable. You are interchangeable. The success of your pve raid isn't determined by the decisions you make, but solely by teh gear you wear, because you're already making the best decisions possible.


I didn't want to get involved in this debate, but I feel I need to address some points here that you've made.

Addons that literally play the game for you are usually just broken or banned by the game's development team in due course (see WoW's AVR Encounters Addon for a good example of this).

Even when you give someone all the information they need to not be awful, I'm afraid you'll find that people still manage to be awful when they're just genuinely bad players. Just because they have all of that information doesn't mean they know what to do with it, it doesn't mean they can react to it correctly and quickly, it doesn't mean they are suddenly a far superior player than they were before, it just means they have all the information they need to not suck.

I'll agree that having more information can make an average or better player better, but I don't really see that as a bad thing. The best players are still the ones that can take all that information and apply it quickly and correctly. The best players are the ones that are situationally aware and can respond to sudden changes in their circumstances, whether the change comes from a UI widget or from the game environment, the best players will respond accordingly. The best players are the ones that can learn from what everyone else is doing whenever anything goes wrong and whenever anything goes right to the best possible effect.

Giving someone an addon that, for instance since this one gets brought up a lot, times boss ability cooldowns (Deadly Boss Mods) and maybe warns the player when certain insta-wreck abilities are about to happen only matters if the player has the wherewithal to process and respond to that information. Just giving this addon to a terrible player isn't going to accomplish much, because they won't know what to do with the information (well maybe they will after they wipe to the same thing a dozen times but that might have happened without the addon).

I don't know if you watch The Weekly Marmot, as it's primarily a WoW-centric show, but I find that he generally gives out good solid advice that can be applied across the MMO spectrum and I'd like you to take a look at one in particular: Gear vs Skill. It does help to address some of the issues you've raised.

EDIT: This one too: How Addons Alter Gameplay

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 8:59pm by Callinon
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#89 Mar 30 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
The skill cap also decreases in what is already a genre that requires fairly little skill. Having a program show melee deadzones or count timers for a stunlock removes the ability of players to show their skill, because it allows anyone to pull off otherwise difficult tactics with ease.


WoW is a perfect example to counter your arguement. DBM is pretty much mandatory for raiding and it in no way turns difficult encounters into simple ones. 99% of the player base still can't take down hard mode bosses even with all of these addons at their disposal. As another poster stated, addons only provide players with more knowledge on the battlefield; they don't turn the game into a cakewalk.

Quote:
Taking ui customization too far hurts a game. When everything is made so easy to do that anyone can do it, everyone plays at the skill cap. That is, everyone plays their role as effectively as it can possibly be played; it is impossible to be a better player than they are. When ui mods make it easy for everyone to hit skill cap, you no longer matter as an individual. All that matters is gear. You bring nothing extra to a group as a tank that the dumbest ****** in the same gear doesn't also bring to the group as a tank. You are replaceable. You are interchangeable. The success of your pve raid isn't determined by the decisions you make, but solely by teh gear you wear, because you're already making the best decisions possible.


As I stated earlier, in WoW (because that's what I'm most comfortable discussing), with the numerous addons that are available for everyone, it still doesn't mean players are going to be as effective as you seem to think they will be. Addons only serve to provide you with information; they don't tell you how to react to the information. Your last statement is what I'm refering to when I say that people are spewing out ignorant statements (I'm not trying to be offensive either).

For example, as a WoW player, I had a raid UI that showed me player health and mana pools. It also displayed all of the buffs and debuffs which were chosen at my disposal. This addons didn't tell me how to heal people, only how much health/mana they had and which debuffs. I had to make the informed decision on which spell to cast and when.

Also, with or without addons, you're always replaceable.
#90 Mar 30 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Even when you give someone all the information they need to not be awful, I'm afraid you'll find that people still manage to be awful when they're just genuinely bad players. Just because they have all of that information doesn't mean they know what to do with it, it doesn't mean they can react to it correctly and quickly, it doesn't mean they are suddenly a far superior player than they were before, it just means they have all the information they need to not suck.

Certainly there are people that awful, but I'm not arguing that extreme amounts of ui customization can make even a vegetable a top tier player, I'm arguing that it lowers the skill ceiling, and it does.

You and Gillyweeds both make the point that while addons can provide users information, they can't make those users make the right decisions. I touched on this earlier, but I suppose I should have gone into it in more detail. The vast majority of MMORPG decisions are trivial, especially those in combat. The most complicated decisions that people have to make are often ones that can be made before a fight (such as an optimum spec and rotations), and so these end up being things people simply look up and copy from people who are smarter than them.

When I'm in my Inquistor DPS spec for experts, in most boss fights I might be using a lot of abilities, but I'm really only making about 3 decisions each fight: 1) DPS 2) offheal) 3) move. When I dps I use 6 different abilities, but I'm never making a decisions when I use them. I determined the best rotation for optimal DPS a long time ago, and so I merely execute the rotation each time I make the singular decision to DPS. Figuring out the best rotation involved a lot of decisions and complexity, but actually using it is fairly simple and can be easily copied by anyone. If the game allowed it, I could write a script to execute my damage rotation and then just toggle that on and off and it would play exactly as well as I do. There is practically no skill involved.

There is very little room for skill in MMORPGs, and UI customization can chip away at what little is left. The last fight in expert KB involves a fight in a room with a spiked floor where you mostly constantly move around with not so much time for error. However, the spikes do follow a programmed pattern that I have memorized and timed in my head. That takes a little bit of skill, and gives me the ability to excel where someone else might fail. If I had a UI mod that gave me the information about when spikes were about to spawn, then that little bit of skill edge I developed would be gone. It'd be easy for people to dodge the spikes when a mod warns them about the pattern well in advance.

Tic Tac Toe is an example of what happens when a skill ceiling is very low. Tic Tac Toe is a solved game that is very easy for even children to play perfectly. A perfect game (that is, one in which each player makes only moves than can lead to winning and no moves that allow a loss) is a draw, and there are so few combinations that anyone can easily memorize them. There is no skill in Tic Tac Toe, and consequently it is a very boring game to play, because a six year old can be taught in 5 minutes how to always draw against someone who has been playing the game for twenty years.
#91 Mar 31 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Even when you give someone all the information they need to not be awful, I'm afraid you'll find that people still manage to be awful when they're just genuinely bad players. Just because they have all of that information doesn't mean they know what to do with it, it doesn't mean they can react to it correctly and quickly, it doesn't mean they are suddenly a far superior player than they were before, it just means they have all the information they need to not suck.

Certainly there are people that awful, but I'm not arguing that extreme amounts of ui customization can make even a vegetable a top tier player, I'm arguing that it lowers the skill ceiling, and it does.

You and Gillyweeds both make the point that while addons can provide users information, they can't make those users make the right decisions. I touched on this earlier, but I suppose I should have gone into it in more detail. The vast majority of MMORPG decisions are trivial, especially those in combat. The most complicated decisions that people have to make are often ones that can be made before a fight (such as an optimum spec and rotations), and so these end up being things people simply look up and copy from people who are smarter than them.

When I'm in my Inquistor DPS spec for experts, in most boss fights I might be using a lot of abilities, but I'm really only making about 3 decisions each fight: 1) DPS 2) offheal) 3) move. When I dps I use 6 different abilities, but I'm never making a decisions when I use them. I determined the best rotation for optimal DPS a long time ago, and so I merely execute the rotation each time I make the singular decision to DPS. Figuring out the best rotation involved a lot of decisions and complexity, but actually using it is fairly simple and can be easily copied by anyone. If the game allowed it, I could write a script to execute my damage rotation and then just toggle that on and off and it would play exactly as well as I do. There is practically no skill involved.

There is very little room for skill in MMORPGs, and UI customization can chip away at what little is left. The last fight in expert KB involves a fight in a room with a spiked floor where you mostly constantly move around with not so much time for error. However, the spikes do follow a programmed pattern that I have memorized and timed in my head. That takes a little bit of skill, and gives me the ability to excel where someone else might fail. If I had a UI mod that gave me the information about when spikes were about to spawn, then that little bit of skill edge I developed would be gone. It'd be easy for people to dodge the spikes when a mod warns them about the pattern well in advance.

Tic Tac Toe is an example of what happens when a skill ceiling is very low. Tic Tac Toe is a solved game that is very easy for even children to play perfectly. A perfect game (that is, one in which each player makes only moves than can lead to winning and no moves that allow a loss) is a draw, and there are so few combinations that anyone can easily memorize them. There is no skill in Tic Tac Toe, and consequently it is a very boring game to play, because a six year old can be taught in 5 minutes how to always draw against someone who has been playing the game for twenty years.

In my opinion, what you are describing is more like design flaws in the raid encounters than a proof that UI improvements will trivialize the content. Bliz has come to terms with the addons like DeadlyBossMods and they're making their boss encounters with them in mind. Killing the hardest HC-mode bosses is still a feat that only the most dedicated, skilled players can manage to do in WoW.

I'm a DPS:er in WoW and in Rift and my opinion is that DPS:ing in WoW takes alot more "skill" to perfect since it's a complex rotation. In rift i can just make a macro that prioritizes the best skill for me, and that's something that has never been working in WoW. DPS:ing in WoW on the top level requires alot of focus to not slack, and when the encounter is complex the DPS would realistically falter and you might wipe. Or, of course, be killed by something you missed on the field.

Argueing that HC raiding in WoW is trivial is very peculiar to me, and I don't think that people that say that understand just how much skill those encounters requires. Addons makes it easier, but the bosses are designed with that in mind.

And finally, the argument about something being simple doesn't necesarilly mean it doesn't require skill, sometimes it's even the opposite. Think of the saying: A minute to learn, a lifetime to master.
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#92 Mar 31 2011 at 5:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm in the same boat as cnas which is why we're probably having a hard time understanding your PoV. WoW doesn't have set rotations. They have priority lists and players need to remember which spell is best used when and what delivers the most DPS. Addons don't tell you that sort of information. Maybe Rift is too primitive for addons at the moment and the simplicity of it doesn't call for them, but I'd still prefer them mainly so I can setup my UI the way I like, not the way Trion may like it. Because WoW is my main source of experience, it's hard to explain the importance of addons because they were integrated into the game by Devs when encounters were created.

IMHO, if you think that addons will lower the skill cap, you should be more upset that we are currently able to make a one-button macro that can do an entire rotation and still pull optimal DPS. In WoW, the encounters were so immersive and complex that addons barely grazed the skill cap. As I said before, addons only show players information where they want to see it, they don't actually improve your skill by telling you what do to or how to react, which is where skill matters. If you think I'm still not understanding you, name an addon that you can find that you think lowers the skill cap of players and we can dispute both sides.
#93 Mar 31 2011 at 5:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Taking ui customization too far hurts a game. When everything is made so easy to do that anyone can do it, everyone plays at the skill cap. That is, everyone plays their role as effectively as it can possibly be played; it is impossible to be a better player than they are. When ui mods make it easy for everyone to hit skill cap, you no longer matter as an individual. All that matters is gear. You bring nothing extra to a group as a tank that the dumbest ****** in the same gear doesn't also bring to the group as a tank. You are replaceable. You are interchangeable. The success of your pve raid isn't determined by the decisions you make, but solely by teh gear you wear, because you're already making the best decisions possible.


Given that less than 1% of guilds have completed all the heroic raid encounters in WoW, I think you're overstating what add-ons can actually do for you. Unless something is happening on a very fixed interval, add-ons have to take their cue from something in the combat log. As often as not, there's usually a visual prompt at the same time as or before anything actually happens. Also, consider Hagan, from Naxx. As long as that fight has been around, and as robust as WoW's API is, people still failed at the dance, regularly. There's a world of difference between being told to do something, knowing what to do, and executing it flawlessly, or nearly so.

Allegory wrote:
When I'm in my Inquistor DPS spec for experts, in most boss fights I might be using a lot of abilities, but I'm really only making about 3 decisions each fight: 1) DPS 2) offheal) 3) move. When I dps I use 6 different abilities, but I'm never making a decisions when I use them. I determined the best rotation for optimal DPS a long time ago, and so I merely execute the rotation each time I make the singular decision to DPS. Figuring out the best rotation involved a lot of decisions and complexity, but actually using it is fairly simple and can be easily copied by anyone. If the game allowed it, I could write a script to execute my damage rotation and then just toggle that on and off and it would play exactly as well as I do. There is practically no skill involved.


There is a lot more involved in doing DPS than simply executing your priority/rotation flawlessly, though. Any time spent off-target can interrupt debuffs and DoTs, but simply starting over at the beginning of your rotation might not be the best decision. There's also the issue of maximizing time-on-target (for melee), and knowing when to refresh bleeds/DoTs before or during movement. When, as a caster, can you afford to stop moving for a couple seconds to hard-cast a spell?

If anything over-simplifies Rift right now, I would argue the fall-through capability of macros is worse than any add-on that survived for any length of time in WoW. You can macro in every reactionary and short CD with your main filler spell/ability and never have to for those abilities to be ready again. WoW had castsequence macros, but they were always inferior to paying attention to timers and using your abilities intelligently.
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#94 Mar 31 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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My opinion after the expert length of two days with Rift:

1. They did a really nice job with their interface. I can play without addons.

2. I am OCD. I'd rather have addons.

I use a lot of mods in WoW. Some do give me information. Most are just for the pretty. Info like cooldowns isn't so much "extra" as just more conveniently placed, so I don't see adapting to life without those kinds of mods as much of a chore. But the convenience factor of adjusting the number of colums/rows/buttons in each individual action bar and customizing the cosmetics of my unit frames would be really nice. It's not necessary, I'd just like it.

As for the great healing mod debate, the only perk I find pretty close to mandatory as a healer is the ability to heal multiple targets with one action (press a key to cast) rather than two (click to target, then press a key to cast). Rift appears to support mouseover macros, so that box is checked.
#95 Mar 31 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
As for the great healing mod debate, the only perk I find pretty close to mandatory as a healer is the ability to heal multiple targets with one action (press a key to cast) rather than two (click to target, then press a key to cast). Rift appears to support mouseover macros, so that box is checked.


I agree with the fact that they support mouseover macros and the simplicity of the formating is really nice as well. The only issue I have is that with respect to playing a Warden as my primary soul, it makes it impossible to conserve mana and heal to the best of my ability when I'm not able to track my HoTs, especially since I'm using mouseover macros so the Tank is not my target.
#96 Apr 06 2011 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
My opinion after the expert length of two days with Rift:

1. They did a really nice job with their interface. I can play without addons.

2. I am OCD. I'd rather have addons.

I use a lot of mods in WoW. Some do give me information. Most are just for the pretty. Info like cooldowns isn't so much "extra" as just more conveniently placed, so I don't see adapting to life without those kinds of mods as much of a chore. But the convenience factor of adjusting the number of colums/rows/buttons in each individual action bar and customizing the cosmetics of my unit frames would be really nice. It's not necessary, I'd just like it.

As for the great healing mod debate, the only perk I find pretty close to mandatory as a healer is the ability to heal multiple targets with one action (press a key to cast) rather than two (click to target, then press a key to cast). Rift appears to support mouseover macros, so that box is checked.


Yes mouse over macros are awesome an awe...I use the f out of them. However the healing interface is still...very very clunky. So that the raid and party ui don't take up to much screen space I have to shrink them down. Once I do that, debuffs become hard to see...purple and red are hard to tell apart when they are that small. Also a way to keep track of hots would be awesome. I'm not a full warden as a healer, however i plan on a purifier/warden build so being able to keep track of shields, hots, debuffs is what I'm after.
#97 Apr 14 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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My only issue with playing a Warden healer is the fact that all Buffs, Debuffs, HoT's and DoT's show up within the same space under the targets frame, and as things fall off, are cleansed or applied, the icons move around making it pretty difficult to keep track of the 3 HoT's that Warden's should have up on the tank...especially when a lot of the icons look similar enough to throw you off.

A Healbot style Add-on would be fantastic, Recount type meter would be nice (this would get abused though, so I can take it or leave it), a buff/debuff meter that let you customize where they showed up on the screen so it made them easier to track and an Auctioneer type add-on to make it so I could go through my bags and post everything in within a few minutes rather than me logging on and going "Uggh, my bags's full, I need to run to the AH and spend the next 30 minutes there..." I usually end up vendoring a lot of crap because I don't want to take the time to figure it all out when all I want is to dungeon grind for 2 hours.

The game works well right now, these are just perks that could be added that would make it that much more enjoyable to me, but not having them doesn't break the game in any way.
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#99 Apr 14 2011 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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DavidI wrote:
I'm currently writing a scripting mod for RIFT, you can check it out here: NINJA EDIT: Nope.. not going to link it... eat me .

Keep in mind it's still in the early stages of development, so it doesn't have a LOT yet... but it is still useful in its current implementation.


Violates the terms of service

Edited, Apr 14th 2011 5:02pm by Callinon
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svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#100 Apr 14 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
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3,272 posts
Riftjunkies has a combat parser.

It runs separately from rift and it doesn't interfere with the eula because it only scans a combatlog file that rift itself makes for you.

If you run dual monitor its even nicer cause you can see the dps after the fights immediately.
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(V)(;,,;)(V) Why not Zoidberg?
#101 Apr 15 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Default
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155 posts
I loved and hated the addons in WoW. As an achievement ***** having addons for that were great, as a raider addons for that were also great, BUT...ALL addons without any question limit your gameplay, why, because it makes the game easier than it was meant to be. I am a healer at heart and miss Healbot, but look folks there are Macros and Keybinds in the game for a reason, stop being lazy and learn to use those features. Addons just slow down the game, causing undo stress on the server load and therefore cause the game to be less appealing.

BTW, you do know that addons like Healbot are just a Macro programs in a slick UI right? I have made my own set of Macros (took me a ton of time) to do the "basic" functions of what Healbot did for me in WoW, all with the in game Macro and Keybind features. I plan to write a post about my healing Macros in the Macro > Cleric section of Zam as soon as I have nailed down/tested them all to perfection. Just don't be lazy and complain about lack of addons when the game supplies you with the tools you need to do most of what you're missing without addons all for yourself.

Also, as for addons like Boss Mods, Recount and Gear Score, they just lead to lazy ***holes in raid that can't be bothered to actually look at the floor to see if fire is burning their face off, promotes god complex style of playing "I'm #1 DPS blah blah blah", and TBH Gear Score ruined WoW entirely, absolutely the worst addon in it's history, the RL wouldn't even bother to inspect your gear, just say min gear score of xxxx to join, even though many could easily out dps/heal those with higher gear scores.
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My Roles:

DPS: (Inq) 51 (Sent) 10 (Ward) 5
Raid Healer: (Puri) 32 (Sent) 34 (Ward) 0
MT Healer: (Puri) 51 (Sent) 15 (Ward) 0
Tank: (Just) 47 (Sham) 7 (Inq) 12
Inquisicar: (Inq) 51 (Justi) 14 (Sent) 1
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