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What I would like to see for PvP rewardsFollow

#1 Jan 22 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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With Phase 5 fast upon us, I've been thinking of one facet over and over again: PvP rewards.

Warfronts opened up in the last phase. At level 10 we got the Black Garden, a "Keep the item away from the other team" kind of game that I really enjoyed. At level 20 The Codex allowed for a "control the resource nodes to gain resources" game functionally identical to WoW's Arathi Basin. I was able to try out both, and ended up hitting friendly notoriety with the Moribund (BG faction) by the end of the phase. I searched around the items available for favor points, and was a bit disappointed.

Despite opening at level 10, the first PvP reward from Black Garden is not available until level 25 (shoulders). Ick! After that, the next piece is available at level 35, and was a different slot (I forget which), and you need the next level of notoriety. Rinse and repeat for higher levels. The Codex had a similar scale, with 10 levels between each reward, requiring more notoriety, and equipped in a different slot.

It kinda bites, really. At the end of the weekend I had a fair amount of favor (around 2000?), and all I could spend it on was some shoulders I couldn't use for 3 more levels anyway (and they cost maybe 550?), or my PvP spec (2500 favor, one-time purchase). I could run the Codex a few more times to get notoriety up for them, but that still means I could get one more item at level 25, and then nothing for 10 levels. Assuming the same level of gain, I would get around 2000 more favor by level 25, letting me easily buy both items and my PvP spec and still have favor left over... and nothing to buy for 10 more levels!

What I would love to see instead is a sliding scale. Say you need friendly notoriety with the Moribund to get the shoulders. Fair deal. Now say you can buy the item at ANY level, with stats that scale to your level at the time of purchase. I could buy it at level 10 for like 100 favor, and have level 10 stats. By the time I hit level 20 I have a ton more favor, so I buy it again, this time for like 400 favor and level 20 stats. Instead of having the next item unlock at level 35 and Honored(?) notoriety, just have it unlock at honored notoriety. Say the level 35 item is a belt. Right now, assuming you only ran the Black Garden, you would have a level 25 shoulder piece and a level 35 belt. But with my idea, you could buy a level 35 shoulder as well.

Say you run the Codex as well? At level 35 you could have a back piece that's the same level if you had the notoriety.

Basically my issue is that notoriety will make Warfronts a grind for people. They will hit level 25/35/45, want to buy a piece, and even though they have the favor, they are forced to grind out notoriety. Instead, make it so that there will ALWAYS be pieces you can buy. The more you play the game, the more slots you have available; but as long as you have the favor, you can always get a piece around your level.

I think this would be a good expansion upon the current idea of "wait 10 levels and get something new. Oh, and run the warfront 50 times, even if you have favor from rift hunting or world PvP."



My only other idea would be some kind of consumables to spend favor on. If I keep doing warfronts I'm seriously going to have a glut of favor even before reaching level 35. I'd rather spend it on something useful now than wait until level 50 and get the awesome items I've seen for sale. Thoughts?
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#2 Jan 23 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I was watching The Sanctum podcast on gamebreaker this afternoon and one of the things they pointed out is that it seems as though they're going a different route with "PvP gear" in Rift as compared to something like WoW. As we know, in WoW PvP gear carried stats that had limited application in PvE, and PvE gear would only get you so far in a PvP environment. One of the ideas they brought up on the podcast today is that so far it seems like PvP gear won't necessarily be all that different from PvE gear and the "PvP stats" will actually come from your PvP soul. And if that's the case, I think Trion could be on to something.

I haven't looked at the PvP gear already available, but if they're putting the things like damage reduction and front-load burst "stats" in your PvP soul instead of relying mostly on gear to provide those things, it could mean that you'll get to level 50 with whatever method you prefer (all warfronts, all PvE stuff, or a mix) and then set in to earning prestige to unlock the extra points in your PvP soul. And while that might be grindy at first, as the game matures I could see real benefit to it.

I have to use WotLK examples because I stopped playing WoW midway through ICC, but assuming they handle itemization around expansions in a similar way to what Blizzard does with WoW, every time the level cap is raised your gear from the previous version of the game tends to get replaced if not while leveling to the new cap, then at least shortly after you hit it. In the PvE sense, it's not really that big of a deal. If you hit 80 in your quest greens and blues, you're not going to be geared to contribute to Icecrown 5-mans, but you can progress through other 5-man content at your own pace until you are. In a PvP sense, if you're not on the ball and focused on PvP you can arrive to 80 with your starter PvP gear and immediately get facerolled at every turn by players who gunned it to 80 and started gearing through honor and arena points.

Compare that to what they were talking about on gamebreaker today, and if you plug away and cap out your prestige level on a character, when the next expansion rolls around you are still going to find players who just go go go to recap their prestige level and get all the extra points, but you're not starting over from scratch. The people with the time and the drive to progress ASAP will still have an advantage over the more casual set, but it won't be a night and day advantage. You can still have most of your damage reduction and burst and then fill out the new stuff as you progress, but you won't be starting from scratch with every expansion. A developer can tier PvE progression however they see fit, but it's a lot harder for them to keep the playing field more or less level in a PvP setting.
#3 Jan 24 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:

I haven't looked at the PvP gear already available, but if they're putting the things like damage reduction and front-load burst "stats" in your PvP soul instead of relying mostly on gear to provide those things, it could mean that you'll get to level 50 with whatever method you prefer (all warfronts, all PvE stuff, or a mix) and then set in to earning prestige to unlock the extra points in your PvP soul.


The gear I have seen so far has just been "normal gear" with a heavier focus on endurance (+hp) and attack stats over passive stats that help regen. Maybe higher armor ratings, but I think those are mostly based on the higher value of the gear, not skewed upward just because it's from PvP.

I guess my basic issue is with leveling there's no real benefit to PvPing in Warfronts immediately. Or rather, if you want a benefit while leveling you are forced to do the warfronts as favor alone (which you can get from rift hunting, world PvP, etc) is not sufficient to buy rewards. However, I also have not heard much about Prestige - despite doing several Warfronts and dabbling in world PvP, my Prestige rank never increased, making me think it's either not in the game yet, or only starts at level 50.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see!
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#4 Jan 24 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
I'm really hoping that any pvp gear is underwhelming. I only say this, because i don't want to see another Aion happen. Where bots and exploits got people top tier PVP gear just months after it's US release. It really unbalances the game, and makes it a ton less fun.

With that said, i don't see it happening. From what i have read so far, most of your PVP + stuff will come from your pvp soul. There will still be an edge to ppl who rush to endgame, and hard core pvp'ers, but nothing game breaking i think.
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#5 Jan 24 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
The gear I have seen so far has just been "normal gear" with a heavier focus on endurance (+hp) and attack stats over passive stats that help regen. Maybe higher armor ratings, but I think those are mostly based on the higher value of the gear, not skewed upward just because it's from PvP.

I guess my basic issue is with leveling there's no real benefit to PvPing in Warfronts immediately. Or rather, if you want a benefit while leveling you are forced to do the warfronts as favor alone (which you can get from rift hunting, world PvP, etc) is not sufficient to buy rewards. However, I also have not heard much about Prestige - despite doing several Warfronts and dabbling in world PvP, my Prestige rank never increased, making me think it's either not in the game yet, or only starts at level 50.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see!


Based on what I got out of the latest PvP video, you start earning prestige at level 50. I'm not sure how much prestige you need to level up and whether or not it's going to be an epic grindfest or something a bit more manageable, but at least once you've done it you shouldn't have to redo the process from scratch unless you reroll.
#6 Jan 24 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Also don't forget you can get (I think unique) equipment, items and experience from Warfronts. Sometimes dead people drop things. I got a half decent staff in Black Garden one run through. (I was a warrior but oh well lol). Warfronts may not be about the PvP like WoW handled it.
#7 Jan 24 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Danex317 wrote:
Also don't forget you can get (I think unique) equipment, items and experience from Warfronts. Sometimes dead people drop things. I got a half decent staff in Black Garden one run through. (I was a warrior but oh well lol). Warfronts may not be about the PvP like WoW handled it.


What I'm seeing so far (assuming the bits and pieces all come together) is that they have taken a very close look at how things are handled in other games and had some very astute people coming up with ways to improve upon them. I knew about the xp from warfronts but not the items from player corpses :P And unless they reset prestige level every time they raise the level cap, they'll have figured out a very clever way to prevent the hard reset to PvP gear that comes with every increase to the level cap as well. I'm not sure if three evenings will be enough for me to check out all the things I'm curious about now, but there's always beta 6 ;D
#8 Jan 27 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I got a chance to play a bit more last night, getting from 22 to 24 and am now at over 4000 favor (yay!). My notoriety with the BG faction is around 2150/10,000 through Honored. I managed to play about 6 BG games, with an average wait of around 20-30 minutes between games. Multiple times I waited for twice the average time (usually said between 10 and 16 minutes). Ended up going 4W, 2L. The biggest factor seemed to be the level difference, although in one of the games the opposing side just didn't seem to understand the objectives so I scored 300 points for the Defiant before the Fang killed me, all without getting focus-fired at all.

My gear issues continue. Sourcestones are now called Planarite and shown in the currency tab; as of right now I have like 360. I finally found the vendors for Planarite in Meridian (they are in the most SW area of the city - the Rift factions are also there, ie the the notoriety you get for each elemental rift). The ONLY good thing about the vendors I have seen is the planar focus vendor. At any level you can buy an upgraded Planar Focus. There were 6 available - I believe they were something like.

50 - 3 Lesser
90 - 1 Greater, 2 Lesser
300 - 4 Lesser
500 - 2 Greater, 2 Lesser
1000 - 1 Greater 4 Lesser
5000 - 2 Greater 4 Lesser

With the numbers being the Planarite required. This means that say you feel 5000 is too steep a number (which it probably is during Beta), but you figure you can swing 500 with no problem. Do it! You now have a great Focus and don't have to wait for such a darn long time to get a reward for all your work.

However, out of the items available from faction vendors, there were MAYBE 2 I could use at my level (and one was a pet for 5000 Planarite). The other item I seem to recall wasn't anything good... perhaps one of those "Add to a recipe to get X stats" bonus? All the other items require level 50.

This brings back the same issue. Right now, Rifts and PvP are for fun but not for material reward (besides exp, and in the case of rift-hunting, planar essences). Almost all the good items are available well past the current cap; there are only a handful available until then. I'd rather have rewards the entire way up.
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