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Rifts endgame and future: A plea for persistent PvPFollow

#1 Feb 03 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Default
1 post
First let me start of by apologizing for my lack of brevity, this will likely not be a short read.

I have played just about every major MMO release since Ultima Online (with the notable exception of EQ), I have enjoyed aspects of several game but I have disappointed by many more. My favorite game MMO of all time is Dark Age of Camelot. DAOC did alot of things wrong, from taking 4 years to implement player owned mounts, promoting a leveling system that killed the low level zones and drove away new players and arguably the entire Trials of Atlantis expansion. But one place that is always shined was in its end game PvP.

In DAOC there were three player factions and the entire end game premise was to have these three factions constantly waring with each other in a massive, persistent battle for control of towers, keeps and relics. This PvP (or as they called it RvR for realm vs realm) was not instanced, there was no timer, it has no team balancing feature (in fact it didn't even auto create teams, the players had to make groups themselves) it didn't even have a level requirement. Yet every day and night across its, then, many servers thousands of people would spends hour doing nothing but battling their enemy factions for bragging rights, class improvements and the glory of their realm. It inspired a true devotion in ones own realm and a hatred of the enemy. You wanted to go defend a tower or siege an enemy keep because every one you took made your side stronger, giving your entire realm bonuses in pvp and pve content and eventually control over a massive dungeon shared by all three realms but usable by only one at a time.

All of this was possible, all of it was worth doing because it was persistent. You didn't have to wait in a queue, you just decided to go out to the RvR zone, find a group and go find something to kill (in an area roughly half the size of WoWs Northrend continent). DAOC would have been nothing with this feature, its the entire reason the game was a success. Yet, no game since then aside from Warhammer Online (a game developed by the same people) has really tired to work persistent large scale PvP into its game.

Now jump to Rift, a game that I started looking at about two months ago and a game that has really captured my attention. I have played in the beta events, watched every episode of The Sanctum, listened to the rift podcast and logged more hours on the ZAM Soul Builder then I would like to admit. I fully intend to pre-order a collectors edition this weekend. I have every belief that the game will become as big a hit as we have seen in this post-WoW world, but my one worry is for its long term future. At the end of the day I dont think that what they have planned for end game content at launch, at least as much has been revealed/discussed so far, can hold onto as sizable playerbase as they may have at launch beyond six months. The shadow of Port Scion looms large but we really no nothing about it other then that its a whole zone and it wont be in the game at launch.

In a game that has, so far, spent more time talking about its PvP aspects then its instanced PvE content I find it odd that they have not seemed to use a persistent model for its end game PvP. Instanced battlegrounds are great but get stale after a while, you can add more but its just more of the same. The ability to mount raids into enemy quest hubs and "gank" people doing PvE can be fun but usually just devolves into griefing and without a true objective like capturing territory lacks the incentive to keep people doing it.

Do you think Trion should or will add a persistent, large scale PvP element to Rift's end game content?

Why has no game company tried to employ an end game PvP system like the one used in Dark Age of Camelot?
#2 Feb 03 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
11,576 posts
They have a system in mind to promote world PvP with objectives. Many Bothans died bringing me this information. Keep your eyes peeled for details between now and launch.
#3 Feb 03 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
Make this game exactly like some old game I got bored with and quit playing but now feel nostalgia for +1.
An old silent pond...
A frog jumps into the pond,
splash! Silence again.

~ Matsuo Basho
#4 Feb 03 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
Make this game exactly like some old game I got bored with and quit playing but now feel nostalgia for +1.

^ Bam.

Sandinmyeye | |Tsukaremashi*a |
#5 Feb 03 2011 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
1 post
Well i have no hope in a company catering to the pvp niche. DAoC did it perfectly, then sold out to Mythic who raped us with their expansions and killed a great game to make some $.

Mythic is satan btw they buy games, release expansions to make $ while ruining the game.

I have no hopes a company will cater to us PvPers since we arnt constantly loud and whining on their forums demanding we have what we want. We are usually quitely playing the game untill we are bored and we move on.

If Rift however does cater to us ill be thrilled, but my hopes and dreams have been smashed by WoW, WAR, and AOC. (never mind Mythis killing ultima online AND DAoC)

But this will not happen, but i hope Rift does keep my attention untill im done with school learning to design video games so one day i can take Ultima Online and DAoC... merge them and get Dltima Age of Comline (well you know what i mean haha)
#6 Feb 03 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Excellent
12,905 posts
unosnow wrote:

I have no hopes a company will cater to us PvPers since we arnt constantly loud and whining on their forums demanding we have what we want. We are usually quitely playing the game untill we are bored and we move on.

You're hilarious!
#7 Feb 03 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Default
1 post
I see good things too come . I just hope they work on bugs and balance first and fast before anything.
#8 Feb 04 2011 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent
602 posts
Well, when it comes to PvP it is partially the company's responsibility to proved the infrastructure for you to do so, whether this is through Open World PvP, Arenas, Battlefield instances or even in Dungeon instances raiding other people's fun ;-) But the other 50% has nothing to do with the game developer. The other 50% comes from you finding a really hardcore PvP guild.

A lot of people think most of them are elitist @#%^s who just want to dominate. Well of course. But on the inside of the guild there is a great bond of friendship. You will see guilds that go out of there way to cause drama on forums and drama in the game but the true hardcore pvp guilds just ignore it and keep pvping. Fortunately I might have found the perfect hardcore PvP guild for myself, this will be my first trek into anything PvP. But I'm mostly an avid player of FPS.

I have to admit, I hate to drop their name here but if anyone here are old EQ/DAOC/Warhammer PvPers or even World of Warcraft feel free to apply: Volkermord PvP Guild - Briarcliff (Guardian). They seem really legit and have a long history of family and friends playing together.

In the end it's all about the Guild and the people you play with. Being a lonewolf isn't any fun. I've learned this over the years and have always tried to find a guild as soon as joining a game. I think Rift will offer you the infrastructure that you want, but make sure you find a Guild that compliments you and in return you adding to their overall effectiveness. Happy Rifting everyone :D

And as for raiding, the fact that Trion Worlds has made it so at level 50 you go back to the original dungeons in beginning zones for a new part of the instance and a harder mode; that's instant kudos right there. They aren't trying to keep endgame in high level zones, they want to spread it around so you're not always in one place.

I'm not worried man. I transitioned here from Final Fantasy XI and will be here for awhile until Final Fantasy XIV picks up in about 6-9 months. I am definitely 100% happy with my decision.

Edited, Feb 4th 2011 6:18am by Excenmille
#9 Jun 07 2011 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
1 post

I adored DAOC as well for the open world PVP - it was amazing. What killed DAOC was not the game itself, which at one point was almost perfectly balanced, was f'ing GOA, the management, adding stupid things that made the game so difficult and frustrating to play it drove everybody away. GOA made the perfect game and then they killed it, their brillance ate itself and produced a pile of shte; why I do not know.

What attracted me to RIFT, as attracted me to WAR, was the promise or hint of open world PVP. WAR failed for me because Clerics and other healers were OP, and there were no decent rogue or pet class. However, the real world PVP was cool and vibrant - you could run out and get into a fight pretty much any time on a PVP server. It was good but the the classes just sucked. The classes in Rift are much better than WAR, it is just that there is no real world PVP, and if it does not appear soon I will quit.

Finally, if Trion thinks PVE end game will keep players happy, it is what drove me away from WOW, and a lot of other people. Don't belive their numbers! Gringing dungeons for months only to find once you max out your gear you need somebody to boost you to the next tier is soul destroying.

I must admit, even the instances were better in WAR, much larger and better designed. I love and hate the MMOs as I ... yah da yah dah... because I know what I want but they never deliver it... anymore, and then not for very long either.

Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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