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The main reason I avoid PvPFollow

#1 Feb 09 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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I have this lovely, bloody image in my head.

I'm doing a quest. I get to the end of it, with some awesome gear reward, or at least a good reward, and BAM! Dead.

Having seen videos of WoW, I know that can happen. But I would imagine it would get freaking annoying for players if it happened often. Am I right in thinking this way? Or do attacks not happen as often as I imagine? Or os there a limit on level or something that I'm not aware of? Does PvP give you an added exp bonus for each player killed? If so, how on earth does anyone level?

My head, people...thoughts? Am I just missing something simple and obvious?
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#2 Feb 09 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't pvp to save my life. I am *terrible* at it. I tried playing on a pvp server in WoW and failed miserably. Most of the time if you run into people of the opposing faction around your level, they'll leave you alone as you are both just trying to level. It's the 80+ lvl folks who tend to get bored and go ganking that become an issue. Just my experience.
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#3 Feb 09 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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most people (so far) in the rift betas play on PvP servers because you will almost always get a warfront quickly, otherwise they'll challenge you to a duel.
#4 Feb 09 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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I played WoW on PvE servers until one day I was questing through a zone and noticed all these areas where you were being sent as part of quests that were also areas where the opposing faction was sent and I thought, "I feel like something is missing form the experience here. I bet this would be more diverse and interesting if all these guys form the other faction were actually a part of the challenge in getting this quest done."

So I rolled on a PvP server.

I won't do it again.

As Kaasha mentioned, the vast majority of your PvP encounters don't come against players of a similar level. The overwhelming majority of the time, people of the opposing faction will not attack you unless they know they've got an advantage whether that's outnumbering you, outleveling you, or outgearing you. In order to have fun on a PvP realm, you need to be focused on PvP with PvE as an afterthought. That's it. That's all. You can still PvE on a PvP realm but if you know that getting thumped by another player while trying to quest is going to irritate you, PvP realms are not for you.
#5 Feb 09 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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PvE only for me then. :D I just don't get fon from that.
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#6 Feb 09 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
I bet this would be more diverse and interesting if all these guys form the other faction were actually a part of the challenge


This is pretty much the reason I prefer PvP servers. Although, if you can't handle getting killed at random, stay away from PvP servers. Most of the people who go around ganking do so to get a rise out of people. If you start raging because you got ganked, you can pretty much guarantee you're going to get camped.
#7 Feb 09 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
I bet this would be more diverse and interesting if all these guys form the other faction were actually a part of the challenge


This is pretty much the reason I prefer PvP servers. Although, if you can't handle getting killed at random, stay away from PvP servers. Most of the people who go around ganking do so to get a rise out of people. If you start raging because you got ganked, you can pretty much guarantee you're going to get camped.


I never gave them the satisfaction. I'd either log out or wait at my corpse or whatever. (And then vent on the fourms later ;D). It just took me getting a character from 1-70 and then trying to do dailies on IoGD (daily quest hub shared by both factions) that taught me that my idea of the PvP experience didn't line up with that of the others I shared a server with so I went back to PvE and never looked back.
#8 Feb 09 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I actually had a lvl 35 player try to gank my Bard in Gloamwood. I was only 26 at the time, so I guess he figured he'd have no trouble killing me. As soon as he attacked, I hit him with my 8 sec. mez, mounted up and left him looking foolish. I saw that he wasn't going to give up however. He had remounted and was trying to catch up to me. So, I opened my warfront window and queued for black gardens. The queue opened instantly, and that was the last I saw of that guy. Lol.

World PvP can be a lot of fun. It really depends on how well the developers implement it. If there is nothing structured for players at end game to keep them busy, then yes, you'll end up with a very WoW-like pvp system where you just have tools on their max level character killing low level players. Warhammer tried to duplicate DAoC's success with keep sieges. However, I noticed most factions avoided eachother and instead of battling for a keep, they'd exchange keeps unopposed in an attempt to grind tier gear more effieciently.

Blizzard's idea of a pvp server was a poor afterthought. An entirely PvE-centric game, with the ability to attack the opposite faction. Basically, that states that one player will attack another player who is already engaged in some sort of quest/mob activity - puting the attacker at a distinct advantage. In WoW; this was actually successful for roughly the first month. Players didn't have max level characters, and for the most part the community was willing to engage in spontaneous battles (like Teran Mill vs South Shore). But it wasn't long before players became apathetic to the cause and didn't care when a player reported in chat that players of the opposite faction were causing a problem.

From what I've seen in RIFT so far, PvP servers are looking like they'll turn out to be much like WoW's. My only hope is that the rift system will add a much needed incentive for world pvp in the higher zones.

Unfortunately in a post-wow genre, world PvP will always be reduced to the lowest common denominator; the player who picks fights (s)he can't lose because of their level/gear. If the developers don't take an active role in their design process to curb this - then they shouldn't even offer pvp servers, IMO. There should be some sort of purpose. If it's just the option of PvP for the sake of having it, then stick to the warfront idea.
#9thehellfire, Posted: Feb 09 2011 at 3:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Scared people who cant play avoid pvp. It takes skill and sadly too many don't have it.
#10 Feb 09 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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thehellfire wrote:
Scared people who cant play avoid pvp. It takes skill and sadly too many don't have it.


And it's this type of arrogant, ignorant attitude that gives PvPers a bad name.
#11 Feb 09 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
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It all comes down to opinion here.

I see why many people don't enjoy PvP servers 100% of the time. Nobody has fun getting ganked, period. That being said though: leveling on a fresh PvP server at the release of a game is one of the most rewarding and exciting experiences you will ever have in any MMO. If you level at the same pace as the majority of players, you don't have to worry about getting "ganked" by players who out level and out gear you tenfold; and you see a LOT of good, fun, thrilling PvP on the way up to the cap. And if you're someone like myself who feels you are good (or at least competent) at PvP, and you do enjoy it, then leveling on a PvP server can make the game for you.

I would absolutely dread leveling on a PvE server myself. I couldn't help but thinking: "Wow, look at the Defiant right there, if I was on a PvP server I could attack him, as would make sense in the game's story and lore. Instead the game is preventing me from doing so, taking away that element of conflict, just so people don't have room to complain when they die from PvP." It would drive me insane, a PvE server is a PvP server without certain game elements, and the emotions that go along with those elements. I would never limit my own gaming experience, just so I didn't get ganked.

---

Note: And to answer one of your original questions, your idea of going to turn in a quest and getting oneshot as you do so... Isn't all that probable. Possible, probably, but not probable. On PvP servers, most of the PvP happens out in the world, when both factions of players are doing quests, gathering resources, exploring, and what have you. Most small towns our outposts will have guards to prevent players from going through what you're worried about going to. Guards that are much higher level than the level range of the zone, that will wreck a player that tries to gank someone inside their own town. Now...it does happen, and people find a way to do this sort of thing, but personally; because of how rare it is I always find it hilarious when somebody does find a way to pull it off without dying. I can't tell you for sure what Rift has in place to prevent ganking in towns, but you can rest assured they'll have something.

But, to each their own.
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#12 Feb 09 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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I think a lot of players who play PvE have had singular bad experiences with PvP, and so they write it off completely.

I see the choice between PvP and PvE servers to be one of "frustrating situations can happen," versus "fun things will never happen." For me, playing on a PvE server is like playing a game with cheats on. It can be nice to run around with god mode on for a little while, but with no real danger there is also no real challenge and consequently no real fun for me.

I think the problem a lot of players have with pvp servers is that they feel when they die it wasn't a consensual fight and that they were powerless to prevent the death, and so it frustrates them. I have a different perspective, and it is fairly consistent with my experiences. You die in pvp servers largely by choice. However it often isn't an obvious choice. It's not so much an active choice of "I want to die," as it is a passive choice of "I'm not going to choose to do something safe." If you quest too far into enemy territory, you have chosen to die. If you isolate yourself from allies or anyone who could help you, you have chosen to die. If you have tunnel vision on your questing and don't keep an eye out for yourself, you have chosen to die. It's like driving a car in the snow. The guy who slid off the road didn't think "I want to slip off this road," but he did make that choice by driving too fast and wearing the tread on his tires too thin. I've never been killed in a situation where I felt I couldn't have avoided the death.

Many players who are strongly opposed to pvp also seem to have some pretty extreme biases against it. They try to stereotype pvp players as all massively overleveled guys hunting level 1s, and as corpse camping griefers. It's quite wrong really. Most world pvp tends to be against similarly leveled players, because those are the guys questing in the zone you are in. PvPers tend to be interested in a challenge, danger, and excitement. Killing level 1 players as a max level isn't fun, it's boring, and most pvpers aren't interested in being bored; they would have rolled pve if they were.



I've played on a pvp server in every MMORPG that has offered it, and I'm an active BG, Warfront, whatever-it's-called-in-your-game player. I've never had a bad experience.

Edited, Feb 9th 2011 5:12pm by Allegory
#13 Feb 09 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
no real fun for me.

You.

Allegory wrote:
Killing level 1 players as a max level isn't fun, it's boring, and most pvpers aren't interested in being bored; they would have rolled pve if they were.


PvE isn't boring to everybody either btw. People who roll PvE servers are not rolling it because they want to be bored. That would be stupid. Some people enjoy PvE and just being able to play a game without the chance of being killed randomly. I started out PvE myself and enjoyed playing PvE. The only reason I play PvP now is because my friends play PvP. If I died it was my fault not because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Allegory wrote:
If you have tunnel vision on your questing and don't keep an eye out for yourself, you have chosen to die.

Fair enough but for other people minding their own business, somebody walks up to them and all of a sudden they are dead. It sucks. They didn't choose that. That isn't tunnel vision that is just an unlucky encounter. You can't make people sound like idiots just because you like PvP.

Allegory wrote:
They try to stereotype pvp players as all massively overleveled guys hunting level 1s, and as corpse camping griefers. It's quite wrong really.


It doesn't matter if a majority are griefers because griefers are still out there. (If they think everybody is a griefer then yes they are wrong but besides that) Most people are aware that all of the level 50's of a server are not sitting at the entrance of Stonefield to kill the level 20's as they step over the border. But there will be that ONE guy that does on every PvP server at least once probably over the lifetime of Rift. And somebody else will be that level 20. Some people prefer not to take that risk. It sucks the fun out of the game especially at a point when you may just be getting used to the game.


Allegory wrote:
I've never had a bad experience.

Lucky you.
#14 Feb 09 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Danex317 wrote:
Allegory wrote:
I've never had a bad experience.

Lucky you.

It wasn't luck. It's a matter of perspective and choices.

When someone ganks me and I die, I don't respawn next to him as fast as I can and then think "that corpse campign jerk," as he kills me again. If I ghost-walk (or whatever the game's mechanic is) up next to the corpse and see that he is still there I don't assume malice, that he takes pleasure in trying to make me suffer. He's probably just bored, and there are few people elsewhere around to fight. Giving a bored person something to do is a bad idea, and so I don't immediately respawn.

Because I understand that the other guy who kills me probably isn't trying to simply ruin my day, and because I am able to see choices to avoid having my day ruined, I have fun.

Playing on a pvp server is about learning to lose without getting angry and learning from losing. Do this, and assuming you have any interest in pvp, you should have a good time.
#15 Feb 09 2011 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Well put, Allegory.
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#16 Feb 09 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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pfft. i know im out to ruin peoples day on a pvp server and id almost say my ultimate victory would be making somebody re-roll pve.
#17 Feb 09 2011 at 9:17 PM Rating: Good
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Because I understand that the other guy who kills me probably isn't trying to simply ruin my day, and because I am able to see choices to avoid having my day ruined, I have fun.


It's neat that having to adjust what you were doing to avoid a corpse camper is actually fun for you. I think 9 times 10 he does want to ruin your day. But you get pleasure from denying him the grief he desires to extract from you. Just goes to show you what some people would consider annoying others find pleasure in. It takes different strokes, different strokes, to rule the world!

All that aside I believe many greifers/trolls are maladjusted socially. I see them as people who are starved for attention. Like children who break things around the house becuase even getting yelled at is better than mommy and daddy just ignoring them.

I feel kinda bad for them but I also don't plan on fulfilling their needs when I am just questing or in a mellow mood. Don't get me wrong, I love PvP. But I want to PvP when we are at the same levels and I am not half dead from a mob. I guess I'm just too selfish to want to try and entertain people I feel sorry for. But thats just me more power to ya. Some people want more imaginary danger than just PvE questing can provide I suppose, which is fine.

We have servers for both of us and in the end, ain't that great?
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#18 Feb 09 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
It's neat that having to adjust what you were doing to avoid a corpse camper is actually fun for you.

Wow, I wait a whole two minutes before respawning. Do you know how long people typically forced me to wait on parties in FFXI?
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
I think 9 times 10 he does want to ruin your day.

Highly speculative and probably wrong. People are self-centered. The guy who ninjas your ore node is doing it because he's greedy, not because he wants you to suffer.
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
But you get pleasure from denying him the grief he desires to extract from you.

I don't get pleasure from playing some weird game with him; I get pleasure from going on about my business after he's moved on.
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
All that aside I believe many greifers/trolls are maladjusted socially. I see them as people who are starved for attention. Like children who break things around the house becuase even getting yelled at is better than mommy and daddy just ignoring them.

You're projecting those feelings onto them because you dislike them, not because it's an honest assessment. You want them to be jerks because they ****** you off; it'd be hard for you to feel justified in disliking them if they were typically decent people.
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
We have servers for both of us and in the end, ain't that great?

Sure, but it seems some people are way too invested in making sure I feel bad about my choice.
#19 Feb 09 2011 at 10:00 PM Rating: Default
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I played wow a long time and i purely pvped...I also ganked ALLOT. I can honestly say ive spent most of my end game time in southshore and stormwind. I played horde. Now i never persistently killed lowbies...i may get them once or twice but then i let them move on and play the game. I got ganked they get ganked...the ganking continues its the way of the world :|, no reference intended. I mainly killed guards, flight masters and npc's so those players couldnt turn in quests therefore, they complain to other players and more people my lvl would show up and we would have a grand ol time till they logged out and i continued on my carnage, My bg que poped, or i got beat. I pretty much did it for the challenge of Free world (no rule) PvP, not to make someone angry or hate the game

But for all the killing ive done..Ive been killed just as many times on my alts and main and never gotten "ruffled feathers" from it? i dont see where the aggravation comes into play? some douchbag kills you a couple times and u cant get away? go do somthing for 10 mins then come back 9 times outta 10 there gone or they rnt payin attention to your body and u can res and run off.
#20 Feb 09 2011 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
Allegory wrote:
Sure, but it seems some people are way too invested in making sure I feel bad about my choice.


Not at all man! I don't want you to feel bad, sorry for getting to philosophical on my analyzing of actual griefers. You don't sound like a griefer at all. If PvP servers were like what you are describing your views are I might be down as well.

I'm just jaded from watching to much poor behavior, in games like WoW, Aion and AoC where some of the dregs of society crawled out of whatever virtual hole they were in and just polluted up the place.

I'm sure there are good times to be had as well, I played a ton of RvR in WAR for example before it went south. But they did have that chicken rule in effect there to keep the balance a bit.

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#21 Feb 09 2011 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
Not at all man! I don't want you to feel bad, sorry for getting to philosophical on my analyzing of actual griefers. You don't sound like a griefer at all. If PvP servers were like what you are describing your views are I might be down as well.

I'm also sorry if I sound overly defensive, but I'm so used to hearing that pvp servers are full of players who are twelve year old internet bullies who spend all day trying to grief other players that I expect it in any thread commenting on the differences between pvp and pve.

I just don't like seeing PvP players insulted. The people who are jerks aren't prone to either server type, and will find ways to be jerks on either. In PvP they'll gank you in unfair situations. In PvE they'll steal your nodes and ninja your loot.
#22 Feb 09 2011 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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The people who are jerks aren't prone to either server type, and will find ways to be jerks on either. In PvP they'll gank you in unfair situations. In PvE they'll steal your nodes and ninja your loot.


Excellent point.
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#23 Feb 09 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Default
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I read a majority of the thread but I got bored so please no flames for repeats basement crowd. When i first started playing mmos (eq classic BB!) I was as blue as one half of a baboons ***, I soon realized that competing with other guilds for raid targets and other loots is lame when all you can do is train and grief in other creative ways. I realize rift is nothing like eq but similar concepts remain. Pvp gives you the tools to activley stop someone griefing you, it also allows someone a much more direct path to griefing you. As far as jerks and ******** go you'll fine them everywhere in my experience the passive agressive pve rage monsters are far worse than the 12 year olds who treat the game like counterstrike with lvls. At the end of the day play what you like, for me that is enjoying the freedom to interact violently with my enemies, and also grief the **** out of their children lol
#24thehellfire, Posted: Feb 10 2011 at 1:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The quote didnt post
#25 Feb 10 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I am more a PvP-er then a PvE-er, still I won't be playing on a PvP server.

I have lots of experience in playing on a PvP server (UO, EQ, DAoC, EvE, AoC, WAR and WoW) but it all boils down to a huge time sink. Meaning that mostly you will be attacked by someone if you are either in combat with a mob, they are higher level or they are in a group. One out of 20 encounters are fun and challenging, the other 19 is either corpse run, getting insulted or getting corpse camped. In case of corpse camping, you log your main, wipe the floor with him and logon to your alt again, ie time sink.

Also it is not fun if you want to do a dungeon and on your way you get steam rolled by a raid of high levels. It only is time consuming. And no, dieing in a internet game is not serious business.

In the end what you wanted to, being it farming mats, doing a quest or whatever, do take much longer.

There is hardly any fair challenging fights, ganking becomes more common and accepted every day by so called PvP-ers who have no clue what they are doing. Besides this, the insults and immature behavior is more alive on a PvP server then on a PvE server.

Ganking:
Attacking an enemy player with the knowledge you can not lose the fight.


PvP servers in a PvE centric game, like The Rift, just does not work as long as the devs do not make a seperate ruleset for PvP. Saying, PvP server is the same as PvE instead there are zones you can attack each other wont cut it. Besides there are some game mechanism in Rift which kills OW PvP.

I miss the thrill of the possibility of being attacked by the opposing faction, so be it. Now I can PvP whenever I want, in an environment where there is more challenge and balance then OW PvP will ever have.

If I want OW PvP, I'll play games who are centered around it, not in a PvE centric game.

moelester wrote:
enjoying the freedom to interact violently with my enemies, and also grief the sh*t out of their children lol


This says it all, how PvP has changed over the years. These kind of things is more common now then it was a few years ago. It is not fun to ruin the game for a player, ever. Griefing should not be allowed, period.

Griefing:
Ruining the players gameplay in such a way that the griefed player has no ingame mechanism available to avoid it, except by logging off.



Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:47am by Shoomy
#26 Feb 10 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I think this game is set up well for a PvP server even tho it is a heavy PvE game. For dungeons you can teleport to them so that wont really be a problem. I also believe that PvP servers bring players together more, it encourages you to group up so the rogue wont gank you mid fight. They have also said that a level 50 player in the best gear could be killed by a raid of lowbies, so it makes me believe that they are not going to be camping quest turn-ins since they A) buffed the guards and B) will get killed by the lowbies.

I know it is all a matter of opinion, but I have always found PvE servers just a little bit more boring. It is much easier for me to sit around for extended periods of time with the excitement of pounding some punks face in who tried to gank me while questing, but that is just me. All of my memories, good and bad, from mmos have been from pvp experiences. To me PvE gets boring, I can only run around killing monsters for so long before I need something more. And I'm sorry, the occasional warfront wont cut it. Hated BGs in WoW, Scenarios in WAR, dont see why Warfronts will be any different.
#27 Feb 10 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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I can't wait for KT and me to run around and start gbajing the **** out the opposite faction.
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#28 Feb 10 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Justin106698 wrote:
I think this game is set up well for a PvP server even tho it is a heavy PvE game. For dungeons you can teleport to them so that wont really be a problem. I also believe that PvP servers bring players together more, it encourages you to group up so the rogue wont gank you mid fight. They have also said that a level 50 player in the best gear could be killed by a raid of lowbies, so it makes me believe that they are not going to be camping quest turn-ins since they A) buffed the guards and B) will get killed by the lowbies.

I know it is all a matter of opinion, but I have always found PvE servers just a little bit more boring. It is much easier for me to sit around for extended periods of time with the excitement of pounding some punks face in who tried to gank me while questing, but that is just me. All of my memories, good and bad, from mmos have been from pvp experiences. To me PvE gets boring, I can only run around killing monsters for so long before I need something more. And I'm sorry, the occasional warfront wont cut it. Hated BGs in WoW, Scenarios in WAR, dont see why Warfronts will be any different.

I am not trying to convince you. That being said some comments on your post.

Yes you can port to a dungeon only if 1 player enters that dungeon. The instant transport also kill open world PvP. In my post I just wanted to emphasis on the time sink, was just an example. Speaking of dungeons. It is already known that you will get more XP per hour farming dungeon. So what will do those PvP guilds on release, hide in a dungeon and XP farm to level 50. Not saying everyone will do it, but lots of guilds will.

Warfronts is another killer for OW PvP. Players will hide in warfronts, farm favor and thus gear and PvP ranks and only will do OW PvP when they feel they are ready.

Above will result in ganking by higher level or over geared players. And yes ganking seems to be part of OW PvP. But fighting the ganker without any chance to change the outcome of the fight becomes boring. And yes, I can held my own on a PvP server and yes, I killed lots of gankers if there was a chance of winning, but most of the time it is just a losing battle you won't ever win, how skilled you are. Resulting in a huge time sink.

I also doubt that a raid of lowbees will be formed to kill that max out geared level 50. Most players do not care anymore. Besides, what is that level 50 with the best gear doing in a lowbee zone ? Baiting ? Annoying players who want to level and be competitive ? Why isn't that level 50 player not in a zone where he can fight equal level and geared players ? Seems he is just bored and want to up his e-peen in expense of other players fun. Buffing guards won't help either it only is another way to minimize OW PvP.

I agree, mob killing gets boring after a while. I also do not like dungeon runs over and over again, same goes for warfronts. Reason I play other games who are centered around PvP instead of a PvE.


Edited, Feb 10th 2011 10:13am by Shoomy
#29 Feb 10 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Vataro wrote:
I can't wait for KT and me to run around and start gbajing the sh*t out the opposite faction.


haha oh man they should totally make that a filter for rape.
#30 Feb 10 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Shoomy wrote:
Justin106698 wrote:
I think this game is set up well for a PvP server even tho it is a heavy PvE game. For dungeons you can teleport to them so that wont really be a problem. I also believe that PvP servers bring players together more, it encourages you to group up so the rogue wont gank you mid fight. They have also said that a level 50 player in the best gear could be killed by a raid of lowbies, so it makes me believe that they are not going to be camping quest turn-ins since they A) buffed the guards and B) will get killed by the lowbies.

I know it is all a matter of opinion, but I have always found PvE servers just a little bit more boring. It is much easier for me to sit around for extended periods of time with the excitement of pounding some punks face in who tried to gank me while questing, but that is just me. All of my memories, good and bad, from mmos have been from pvp experiences. To me PvE gets boring, I can only run around killing monsters for so long before I need something more. And I'm sorry, the occasional warfront wont cut it. Hated BGs in WoW, Scenarios in WAR, dont see why Warfronts will be any different.



I also doubt that a raid of lowbees will be formed to kill that max out geared level 50. Most players do not care anymore. Besides, what is that level 50 with the best gear doing in a lowbee zone ? Baiting ? Annoying players who want to level and be competitive ? Why isn't that level 50 player not in a zone where he can fight equal level and geared players ? Seems he is just bored and want to up his e-peen in expense of other players fun. Buffing guards won't help either it only is another way to minimize OW PvP.


The way Rift is set up high level players will be in low level areas in Rift because of the way major invasions are set up. If they give higher level rewards everywhere then every area will have its share of high and lower level character which can prove interesting.
#31 Feb 10 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
Vataro wrote:
I can't wait for KT and me to run around and start gbajing the sh*t out the opposite faction.


haha oh man they should totally make that a filter for rape.


They really should.

Also, what do you plan on playing on release? I don't remember.
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#32thehellfire, Posted: Feb 10 2011 at 4:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you dont like pvp roll on carebear server
#33 Feb 10 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Danex317 wrote:
The way Rift is set up high level players will be in low level areas in Rift because of the way major invasions are set up. If they give higher level rewards everywhere then every area will have its share of high and lower level character which can prove interesting.


If this is true then I agree, but I can assure you that there will be no level 50 mobs invading level 20 zone.
#34 Feb 10 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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There are good PvP games and bad PvP games. The difference between them is really quite simple; Ability to escape. Back in the early days of MMO PvP (thinking UO here) if you were paying attention you could generally get away from the PKs when you didn't want to fight. Unfortunately, every game since then has added more and more ways to stop or catch up to runners while also removing or never adding escape abilities. In Rift there are some escape-oriented abilities, but it's really a calling/soul thing.

For the most part, getting away isn't an option, so you're forced to fight. This leads to the inevitable gank squad since the vast majority of open-world PvPers are better defined as PKs (player killers, a term which is rarely used anymore) and are more interested in killing you (and being rewarded for it) than they are in simply having a good fight.
#35 Feb 10 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Shoomy wrote:
Danex317 wrote:
The way Rift is set up high level players will be in low level areas in Rift because of the way major invasions are set up. If they give higher level rewards everywhere then every area will have its share of high and lower level character which can prove interesting.


If this is true then I agree, but I can assure you that there will be no level 50 mobs invading level 20 zone.


Most likely true but don't forget that the mobs strength is somehow based on the amount and level of the players in the area. We still don't know how the game will work in the end when it comes to that. We'll just have to wait an see. :P
#36 Feb 10 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Vataro wrote:
KTurner wrote:
Vataro wrote:
I can't wait for KT and me to run around and start gbajing the sh*t out the opposite faction.


haha oh man they should totally make that a filter for rape.


They really should.

Also, what do you plan on playing on release? I don't remember.


My initial plan was to roll pyro mage. But i think a PvP and Rift healbot cleric could be fun...
#37 Feb 10 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
Vataro wrote:
KTurner wrote:
Vataro wrote:
I can't wait for KT and me to run around and start gbajing the sh*t out the opposite faction.


haha oh man they should totally make that a filter for rape.


They really should.

Also, what do you plan on playing on release? I don't remember.


My initial plan was to roll pyro mage. But I think a PvP and Rift healbot cleric could be fun...


Whatever lets us pwn noobs better.
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#38 Feb 10 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Vataro wrote:


Whatever lets us pwn noobs better.


If you guys are shooting for a balanced group, for extra noob pwning, just let me know what ya need. I was planning on Champ, but I'm still rather undecided in the long run. Cleric is seeming more interesting the more I read about it, and I was actually looking at Pyro's talents a while back, and they seem down right amazing. Even though Mages (Pyro's specifically anyway) seem pretty gimpy at early levels, imo. I definitely did not have fun leveling that Pyro into it's teens last beta. =/


Edited, Feb 10th 2011 10:34pm by Fahros
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#39 Feb 10 2011 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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yeah what are you planning to roll Vat? I just assumed rogue.
#40 Feb 10 2011 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
yeah what are you planning to roll Vat? I just assumed rogue.


You assume correctly. I tried mage out but had lots more fun as a rogue. My main two roles will be assassin/bladedancer and riftstalker/bladedancer.
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#41 Feb 10 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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Fahros wrote:
Vataro wrote:


Whatever lets us pwn noobs better.


If you guys are shooting for a balanced group, for extra noob pwning, just let me know what ya need. I was planning on Champ, but I'm still rather undecided in the long run. Cleric is seeming more interesting the more I read about it, and I was actually looking at Pyro's talents a while back, and they seem down right amazing. Even though Mages (Pyro's specifically anyway) seem pretty gimpy at early levels, imo. I definitely did not have fun leveling that Pyro into it's teens last beta. =/


Edited, Feb 10th 2011 10:34pm by Fahros


I think a pyro mage with some CC, rogue and a healbot could be a pretty deadly setup. A champ could work too i guess.
#42 Feb 11 2011 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I'm looking forward to a truely open world PvP experience. This is war between the two factions and I want to feel that risk and reward. I don't care if it's going to take me longer to level than those on PvE servers. At least I know that it should be a far richer and challenging experience.

I sure hope Trion continues down the path in allowing players to control the environment on PvP servers. At the end of the day, it all comes down to the people that play the game. Sure, there will be douches... but really... it's war and both sides will feel the same about the other.

If you venture out into the world alone... you will surely die alone as well. While leveling, it's going to be about survival... not from the PvE mobs, but from PvP with the other faction. You'll always have a higher survival rate while questing in groups. Those solo or dual "douche gankers" will skip groups and continue searching for the solo questers (especially those afk in the open).

Basically, on the PvP servers, stay alert, use common sense, quest in groups, help defend your faction controlled areas, disrupt the other faction's progression... and have fun doing it all!

If this doesn't sound like fun in the slightest... stick to the PvE servers as it may be more your speed. Just don't play on a PvP server and start whining about being camped.

For those that are looking forward to the open beta world PvP experience... game on!
#43 Feb 11 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
I think a pyro mage with some CC, rogue and a healbot could be a pretty deadly setup. A champ could work too i guess.

Not that any of you shouldn't feel free to roll another one if you want, but I was already going to roll a healbot with Vataro.
#44thehellfire, Posted: Feb 11 2011 at 12:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They fixed pvp, now we can gank, corpse camp, and all the other stuff we all love in PvP! Yay Trion!
#45 Feb 11 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
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thehellfire wrote:
They fixed pvp, now we can gank, corpse camp, and all the other stuff we all love in PvP! Yay Trion!


praise white jesus!
#46 Feb 11 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Although i usually also always play on a pvp serer.I can definitly see why players do roll on a pve server cause they is always those group of players that just love ruining other peoples gaming experience.

I like the pve and pvp in games,but i can say i like pvp a little more.now by pvp imo i mean like battlegrounds or encountering someone either goin to do a quest or coming back to return their quest in (basically someone aware that im there and at full health).NOt someone killing a mob and at 50% or less health.I really never understood some players that will constantly kill someone over and over again and have fun while doin it.

I like pvp servers mainly cause of end game content cause lets face it (for me)i cant just log in and do quests and instances all night.Most of my time logged in while im at max level is pvping.Like i said pvpin meaning fighting usually an aware person or a battleground.Countless times in aion or other games i have let people go kill their mobs then engaged them or just kept on running looking for more players.

Warhammer (although not very successful)had an ok pvp system where you couldnt go to lower level areas if you were high level and also they made the pvp area seperate from the pvp area.Now on the pvp servers you could gank questers ,but i can honestly say the whole time i played war i never seen much pvp in pve areas.

Like i said i do like to pvp but i still and always will believe that every game should implement some type of penalty for fighting players soo many levels below you cause lets face it even if someone is a so called "hard core pvper"what challenge is in someone who cannot for any reason kill you even will all their cooldowns and you using nothing but auto attack.

Like i said i can definitly see why players like pve servers while leving up cause it does suck getting ganked repeatitly.Although to me i just go do something else or try to scout out the ara and hope for a kill back at that guy while im at full health and have cooldowns.But some people just cant take getting ganked so they go to pve servers.

I know alot of people really just enjoy playing these games like an rpg,but your able to group with others.
#47 Feb 11 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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Nekovivie wrote:
I have this lovely, bloody image in my head.

I'm doing a quest. I get to the end of it, with some awesome gear reward, or at least a good reward, and BAM! Dead.

Having seen videos of WoW, I know that can happen. But I would imagine it would get freaking annoying for players if it happened often. Am I right in thinking this way? Or do attacks not happen as often as I imagine? Or os there a limit on level or something that I'm not aware of? Does PvP give you an added exp bonus for each player killed? If so, how on earth does anyone level?

My head, people...thoughts? Am I just missing something simple and obvious?
I also avoid PvP in MMOs unless the following is true:

-Game has some sort of karma system for killing players that do not fight back (like Lineage II).
-Game has penalties for death such as dropping gear(chance increased by amount of negative karma), losing xp, etc.
-Cannot see other players' level or health.

IMO these three factors make PvP far more exciting, and fuels the social aspect of PvP as well.
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#48 Feb 11 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Corthaemus wrote:
Nekovivie wrote:
I have this lovely, bloody image in my head.

I'm doing a quest. I get to the end of it, with some awesome gear reward, or at least a good reward, and BAM! Dead.

Having seen videos of WoW, I know that can happen. But I would imagine it would get freaking annoying for players if it happened often. Am I right in thinking this way? Or do attacks not happen as often as I imagine? Or os there a limit on level or something that I'm not aware of? Does PvP give you an added exp bonus for each player killed? If so, how on earth does anyone level?

My head, people...thoughts? Am I just missing something simple and obvious?
I also avoid PvP in MMOs unless the following is true:

-Game has some sort of karma system for killing players that do not fight back (like Lineage II).
-Game has penalties for death such as dropping gear(chance increased by amount of negative karma), losing xp, etc.
-Cannot see other players' level or health.

IMO these three factors make PvP far more exciting, and fuels the social aspect of PvP as well.


IMO I think those three factors can completely ruin PvP and take it from being a fun style of play, to a far too serious, and far too random style of play. I think all those features would make for a terrible game.

But alas, we have conflicting opinions.

Not being able to see players level in Aion was one of the reasons I quit that game, I thought it was so game breaking. You would literally never know when you're about to have a fair fight. As a level 30, would you want to track and attack a level 50? **** no...all that work just to get demolished? Conversely, would you want to track and kill a level 20? **** no, he's not worth your time, and why go through all the effort just to gank a little lowbie. You wouldn't even know what you were getting yourself in to, and I think that's a huge part of PvP. That idea takes out any sort of pre-fight tactics or intelligence, which are big determining factors for me, and I think any good PvP'er.

Annnd dropping gear would simply be ridiculous in today's style MMOs. Why spend weeks grinding gear if you could just drop it...

I just don't agree, what so ever.


Edited, Feb 11th 2011 9:19pm by Fahros

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 9:19pm by Fahros
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#49 Feb 11 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Corthaemus wrote:

-Game has some sort of karma system for killing players that do not fight back (like Lineage II).
-Game has penalties for death such as dropping gear(chance increased by amount of negative karma), losing xp, etc.


Tibia also had the first feature. It made life interesting because you knew to avoid the people with the red names at certain times.

And I am not sure how many people noticed but dead player bodies do drop gear. Not THAT persons gear but def unique set of items (trash through uncommon as far as i know)
#50 Feb 11 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Corthaemus wrote:
Game has some sort of karma system for killing players that do not fight back (like Lineage II).

That seems like a really awful idea. It's far too error prone and invites the kind of griefing that happens on PvE servers where people bait you. And what if you're in a 2v2, but each team decides to focus fire on one person, one of you definitely gets bad karma even though it was a completely fair fight. What if the other guys has someone healing him without using offensive abilities?
Corthaemus wrote:
Cannot see other players' level or health.

That also seems quite bad, especially when combined with the above. What if I accidentally one shot someone because I didn't know they were a lowbie? What if someone happened to be running around with low health after a fight and I also one shot them? In any of those circumstances I'm punished. Again, leaves plenty of room for griefing.
Corthaemus wrote:
Game has penalties for death such as dropping gear(chance increased by amount of negative karma), losing xp, etc.

The same reason you don't drop gear in pvp is the same reason you don't drop it in pve. Because you can disconnect, because the power can go out, because you can have a family emergency.

It's a system that is net unfun for players. A mage looting a warrior for a piece of BOP platemail he can't wear and will just vendor isn't going to be as happy as the warrior is going to be unhappy that he lost a really nice BOP platemail. It's more frustrating to lose gear you've worked for than it is fun to gain it from players.

It also gives people room to really grief someone. Corpse camping you for a few mins is nothing compared to make you lose an item you spent days to get.

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 8:40pm by Allegory
#51 Feb 11 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Corthaemus wrote:
Game has some sort of karma system for killing players that do not fight back (like Lineage II).

That seems like a really awful idea. It's far too error prone and invites the kind of griefing that happens on PvE servers where people bait you. And what if you're in a 2v2, but each team decides to focus fire on one person, one of you definitely gets bad karma even though it was a completely fair fight. What if the other guys has someone healing him without using offensive abilities?


If they were intelligent this would be accounted for somehow. It isn't that hard for a game to know that somebody is healing somebody in a PvP fight. It has obviously been done before. And he didn't say you are going to move 30% slower for every point of Karma. It is an accountable amount not a f*** you amount. It worked fine whenever I have seen it.

Allegory wrote:
Corthaemus wrote:
Cannot see other players' level or health.

That also seems quite bad, especially when combined with the above. What if I accidentally one shot someone because I didn't know they were a lowbie? What if someone happened to be running around with low health after a fight and I also one shot them? In any of those circumstances I'm punished. Again, leaves plenty of room for griefing.


For one you aren't going to see a level 6 person that you can one shot in Scarlet Gorge. If they have low health then they are fair game because you were going to attack them anyway if you hit them at all to find that out. Same as above, there is leeway built in. I personally don't agree with not being able to see their level or health either but to the point of one shots you might also accidentily attack somebody that is a higher level and get griefed yourself and at that point you deserve it.

Allegory wrote:
Corthaemus wrote:
Game has penalties for death such as dropping gear(chance increased by amount of negative karma), losing xp, etc.

The same reason you don't drop gear in pvp is the same reason you don't drop it in pve. Because you can disconnect, because the power can go out, because you can have a family emergency.


It's a system that is net unfun for players. A mage looting a warrior for a piece of BOP platemail he can't wear and will just vendor isn't going to be as happy as the warrior is going to be unhappy that he lost a really nice BOP platemail. It's more frustrating to lose gear you've worked for than it is fun to gain it from players.

It also gives people room to really grief someone. Corpse camping you for a few mins is nothing compared to make you lose an item you spent days to get.


This system does not work in games where you show what you are wearing. I specifically remember that Tibia refused to implement making your gear visible to all to prevent people from killing you knowing exactly what you would have on you. And in games like this (like in Tibia) when you die you are teleported back to town you dont return to your body. Losing equipment does suck but the whole game is built differently as well.

In Tibia you dropped anything not equipped (like your backpack) and had a 10% chance to drop any of your equipment (which went up the lower your karma was). So if you were killed in PvP you know most of it was gone and there was no point in returning to your body anyway. The loot tables are also different.


Edited, Feb 11th 2011 10:20pm by Danex317
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