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Various Questions - Across the SpectrumFollow

#1 Feb 09 2011 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I have not had the opportunity to play RIFT as of 2/9/2011, but plan to start as soon as the Beta opens and into the game's release, so forgive me if these questions aren't difficult to answer.

1) Will RIFT'S interface be customizable as WoW's interface is? Will their be an "interface" folder where any and all modifications to the UI (Meters, Unit Frames (I prefer raid frames only and 100% only use Grid in WoW), Casting Bar, Action Bar, etc.) can be done?



2) Will RIFT allow for various macros? Mouseover macros are pretty essential to a top end raider's performance in my experience. Required? No, of course not, but they certainly help.



3) Assuming there are other theory-crafters that spend their time min/maxing for raid settings, are there any plans for an "EJ" site built for number crunching, as well as a dps/hps/tps ranking site like "WoL, WMO, etc."?



4) From all the information I've gathered on RIFT, the current meta game is fairly bloated with a handful of useless abilities/talents that are only situation at very best. Is this purely speculation at this point (Judging by the talent tree assessments, each "spec" is looking at 50+ abilities at any given point. That's fairly unmanageable, nor is it likely that all 50 have any real purpose)?




Thanks for your time all. Any and all responses are appreciated.






Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:58am by Ekye
#2 Feb 10 2011 at 12:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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#3 Feb 10 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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1) Will RIFT'S interface be customizable as WoW's interface is? Will their be an "interface" folder where any and all modifications to the UI (Meters, Unit Frames (I prefer raid frames only and 100% only use Grid in WoW), Casting Bar, Action Bar, etc.) can be done?


The interface is already nicely customizable out of the box. it basically has Bartender built in. In game LUA type addons like Omen and Recount don't seem to be supported yet. Much debate on whether this is good or bad.

Quote:
2) Will RIFT allow for various macros? Mouseover macros are pretty essential to a top end raider's performance in my experience. Required? No, of course not, but they certainly help.


Haven't played with macro's much yet. I would assume they are in there.

Quote:
3) Assuming there are other theory-crafters that spend their time min/maxing for raid settings, are there any plans for an "EJ" site built for number crunching, as well as a dps/hps/tps ranking site like "WoL, WMO, etc."?


These types of sites are dependant on the success of the game. If the game does well I am sure they will sprout up. There is already a wiki site.

Quote:
4) From all the information I've gathered on RIFT, the current meta game is fairly bloated with a handful of useless abilities/talents that are only situation at very best. Is this purely speculation at this point (Judging by the talent tree assessments, each "spec" is looking at 50+ abilities at any given point. That's fairly unmanageable, nor is it likely that all 50 have any real purpose)?


I worried about ability bloat as well but surprisingly it has not been that much of an issue for me yet up to level 25. I do have abilities which I don't use that are redundant depending on the build. However certain builds have more synergies than others. And part of the fun is finding the abilities that are useful and synergize. The current talent tree's in WoW that lock you in are pretty dull now if you ask me. Sure its easy for Blizz to balance them now for e-sports but still its kinda drab.

I like the early stages of a game where there are so many possibilities such as Rift currently stands.

I don't plan to sweat the ultimate purpose of what this game will bring. All endgames turn into the same gear grind. I just hope to enjoy the ride while it seems fun and enjoy all the possibilities for roles and alts.


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#4 Feb 10 2011 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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1) As of now their UI is greatly customizable, but it is limited to 1st party options. Presently you cannot have add-ons like in WoW. A large part of the stated reason for this is that Trion wants to avoid giving away too much freedom away allowing for situations like WoW glider or macros that automate far too much. IT is possible this may change in the future. I do want to be clear that the UI as is is still incredibly customizable. You can drag frames around wherever you want, edit chats to display only certain sources, and more.

2) Rift does allow for macros. There is already a mouse over macro for healers.

3) I'm sure such a group will arise, though it's not something that anyone dictates. Blizzard didn't create EJ, it's just something that arose naturally by the players. Many players are already starting to do their own data gathering and analysis. I've been exploring healers myself recently.

4) I'm not exactly what you are referring to. Early on you will get a few redundant abilities in your souls, such as two of the healer souls that essentially get the same initial 2 second casting damage spell. However the reason for this is that every soul needs to be able to function indecently because the game needs to allow you to mix any soul with any other soul and you need to be able to level effectively with any of them starting at level 1. The redundancy ends very early on, by about level 4 or 6. You'll have to provide some example or better describe what you mean, it might exist, but I'm not entirely certain what you are getting at.
#5 Feb 10 2011 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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citizen of the month imo.
#6 Feb 10 2011 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
stuff

Completely unrelated, but looks like someone's premium ran out.
#7 Feb 10 2011 at 12:16 AM Rating: Decent
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That's my hope as well. My guild collapsed after a run from Vanilla at a constant top 50 ww pace. I want to get back into that competitive nature, but my time in WoW is at it's end. Cataclysm is no doubt the best shape that game has ever been in difficulty wise, but that being said, it's time for a change, and RIFT really seems like it may be the ticket. I do hope that RIFT'S UI is completely customizable as asked earlier. A base UI is a number cruncher's ****.
#8 Feb 10 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
1) As of now their UI is greatly customizable, but it is limited to 1st party options. Presently you cannot have add-ons like in WoW. A large part of the stated reason for this is that Trion wants to avoid giving away too much freedom away allowing for situations like WoW glider or macros that automate far too much. IT is possible this may change in the future. I do want to be clear that the UI as is is still incredibly customizable. You can drag frames around wherever you want, edit chats to display only certain sources, and more.

2) Rift does allow for macros. There is already a mouse over macro for healers.

3) I'm sure such a group will arise, though it's not something that anyone dictates. Blizzard didn't create EJ, it's just something that arose naturally by the players. Many players are already starting to do their own data gathering and analysis. I've been exploring healers myself recently.

4) I'm not exactly what you are referring to. Early on you will get a few redundant abilities in your souls, such as two of the healer souls that essentially get the same initial 2 second casting damage spell. However the reason for this is that every soul needs to be able to function indecently because the game needs to allow you to mix any soul with any other soul and you need to be able to level effectively with any of them starting at level 1. The redundancy ends very early on, by about level 4 or 6. You'll have to provide some example or better describe what you mean, it might exist, but I'm not entirely certain what you are getting at.



Excellent. Will read this now.
#9 Feb 10 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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Completely unrelated, but looks like someone's premium ran out.


Oops! I'll fix it tomorrow. Sleepy time now. >.>
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#10 Feb 10 2011 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
Excellent. Will read this now.

Important note. All of the data I have on healing at the moment is for the base spell at (at max rank). It does not include any stat bonuses or talents, both of which will definitely affect results.

The reason for this is that I'm presently having difficulty figuring out the spell power coefficients for spells. Betas being down and limiting my ability to test isn't helpful either.

I also made a mistake in a post about Ebb and Flow, where I assumed the GCD to be 1.5 seconds. It is actually 1 seconds. However the result is still the same that achieving full stacks of Ebb and Flow is both too time consuming and too unreliable to be worth points.
#11 Feb 10 2011 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Yea. I've spent a week toying with the Cleric and Mage talent trees trying to produce 2 talent specs that I would work with. I opted out of Ebb and Flow after that same consideration. If the talent were 20/40/60/80/100%, I could potentially rationalize the up time in a raid heal setting, but that being said, it's not practical regardless, and certainly not worth 5 points.
#12 Feb 10 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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These are the two builds I came to from an initial reaction to the talents and abilities in each tree. Feel free to tear them apart.


Mage - http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1zqIz.Vxxt00z.ecxI0ucuxo.V

Cleric - http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10eGj.x.ExoEctdqz.E00x0o


#13 Feb 10 2011 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm mostly familiar with cleric builds (and within that healer focused builds). I haven't explored the other callings too much.

Your Cleric build is fairly good, but I'd make a few tweaks.

1) You do not need to take Healing Invocation in the Sentinel tree. Purifiers have Restorative Flame, which is nearly identical (though baseline it does have slightly worse efficiency and HPS). However you have Restorative Flame talented so that it shield for 60% of your wisdom, which will almost certainly make it better in the HPS and efficiency department than Healing Invocation.

2) Take 5 points out of Warden and put them into Sentinel. You lose +10% mana, a damage spell you probably won't use as a healer, and the ability to cure curse (situationally meaningful). I haven't seen mana be too much of a problem, but if you're still concerned you can put the 5 points into Sentinel's Light Concentration to get 10% cheaper heals (and since this is a healing build that may as well be 10% mana). You gain a lot though. You have the option to put those 5 talent points in some potentially useful abilities such as Enraptured Breath, Protect the Flock, and Luminous Gaze. I haven't tested these personally, but they might be great, especially Enraptured Breath. The biggest gain is Healer's Covenant (ally receives 40% less damage 10 seconds). This is perhaps the best emergency healer ability in the game. It is far too good to pass up. Not only can it save your *** when things get bad, but it also has some additional utility. For example, my tank buddy and I would often coordinate in big rift invasions so that he uses his big aoe taunt at the same time I use Healer's Covenant. It was an awesome combo that took a lot of pressure off our raid.



Edited, Feb 10th 2011 1:06am by Allegory
#14 Feb 10 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
I have not had the opportunity to play RIFT as of 2/9/2011, but plan to start as soon as the Beta opens and into the game's release, so forgive me if these questions aren't difficult to answer.

1) Will RIFT'S interface be customizable as WoW's interface is? Will their be an "interface" folder where any and all modifications to the UI (Meters, Unit Frames (I prefer raid frames only and 100% only use Grid in WoW), Casting Bar, Action Bar, etc.) can be done?


The game won't support user created addons at launch. The reason the devs have given is that they want to focus on quality and anything that ships for use with the game has to meet their quality standards (which are quite high). As far as addons go, they haven't worked out a way to ensure that they can offer an API that will allow for the consistency of quality that they would require so while they haven't said they will never support addons, there will be no addon support at launch.

Quote:
2) Will RIFT allow for various macros? Mouseover macros are pretty essential to a top end raider's performance in my experience. Required? No, of course not, but they certainly help.


Yes, there are already people coming up with and sharing things like mouseover macros and such.

Quote:
3) Assuming there are other theory-crafters that spend their time min/maxing for raid settings, are there any plans for an "EJ" site built for number crunching, as well as a dps/hps/tps ranking site like "WoL, WMO, etc."?


I'm not sure where Rift Junkies are planning on going with their site (I'm not sure if they're an offshoot of ArenaJunkies or if it's just a coincidence that their names are familiar). It's a safe bet that sooner or later the min-max crowd is going to define a home for their think tanks.

Quote:

4) From all the information I've gathered on RIFT, the current meta game is fairly bloated with a handful of useless abilities/talents that are only situation at very best. Is this purely speculation at this point (Judging by the talent tree assessments, each "spec" is looking at 50+ abilities at any given point. That's fairly unmanageable, nor is it likely that all 50 have any real purpose)?


Yes, you get a lot of abilities. Yes, a lot of those abilities are redundant. It's not that it's unmanageable, it's that people see all these abilities and get overwhelmed and feel like they need to have access to all of them at all times and nothing could be farther from the truth. I've seen screenshots of the UI some people have set up and it's like three rows of action bars at the bottom of the screen and two rows off the right side of the screen and every single ability they've ever received is on those bars.

What a cluttered mess. And it's not necessary.

Regardless of any cookie cutter builds that may take shape as the game matures, it is still set up so that you can build a character with any combination of souls from those available within a given calling. Each of those souls provides their own basic attacks, finishers, etc. The key as a player is to review those abilities, what they do, how they differ between different souls, etc. And then you use what you use and you leave the rest aside. An ability that may be of no use to you as a paladin/void knight/reaver may be a mainstay for your warlord/beastmaster/paragon. Rather than try and decide for you which abilities you should be using based on your build, Trion just gives them all to you and leaves you to sort it out.

In the end, you only have so many GCDs in a specific span of time. Take this setup as an example.

Paladin/Void Knight/Reaver will grant you these combat abiltiies:

Pacifying Strike (Paladin): Strike an enemy to force them off balance and deal weapon plus 9 to 11 Physical damage, in addition to reducing the amount of damage they do in melee combat by 5% for 15 seconds. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Attack Point.

Reckless Strike (Void Knight): Deal weapon plus 8 to 10 Physical damage. Each active Pact increases Reckless Strike damage by 4%. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Attack Point.

Ravaging Strike (Reaver): Deals weapon plus 9 to 11 Physical damage, in addition to reducing the enemy's armor by 31 for 15 seconds. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Attack Point.

Aggressive Block (Paladin): Strike the enemy with a shield for 20 to 22 Physical damage, modified by Strength, in addition to increasing block by 10% for 15 seconds. Requires an equipped shield. Generates additional threat. This ability grants 1 Attack Point.

Righteous Blow (Paladin): Using an opening in an enemy's defenses, hit them with a powerful strike for weapon plus Physical damage:
1 Point: 100% of weapon plus 12 damage.
2 Points: 120% of weapon plus 20 damage.
3 Points: 140% of weapon plus 29 damage.

Dire Blow (Reaver): Melee attack that hits for weapon plus Physical damage:
1 Point: 100% of weapon plus 12 damage.
2 Points: 120% of weapon plus 20 damage.
3 Points: 140% of weapon plus 29 damage.

Soul Sickness (Reaver): Tear at an enemy's spirit for 37 Death damage over 15 seconds. This ability grants 1 Attack Point.

So right there, just for having those three souls equipped with no points spent in any of them, you have 7 abilities to choose from (you also get Void, which is a buff from the Void Knight soul but it's not an ability you use during combat so pbbbt).

That's 10.5 seconds worth of GCDs all by itself. So to keep all of your buffs rolling, you've only got 4.5 seconds (3 attacks) to fill in your rotation. And depending on your level and how you spend your points, as well as the specifics of the fight, your rotation might change from encounter to encounter. Pacifying Strike is nice when fighting things that hit you with physical attacks but what's going on in the fight? Multiple physical attackers? One? One physical and a caster? Is it worth it to cycle targets and get the debuff on all of them?

Do you really need to debuff a caster's armor? Do you have any pacts to buff the damage from Reckless Strike (if you do, it can do more damage than any of your other generic attacks. If you don't, it's not worth using. And depending on how many points you have spent in the Void Knight soul, you may only get pacts from casters or you can get pacts from anything).

Can you get by without all this nit-picky min-maxing stuff? Yes. Does it provide a foundation to set yourself apart from Joe Average? Yes. And by the time you start filling in your tress, you'll find that you start stripping out the fluff more and more because you can only do so many different things before you start letting things like the buff from Aggressive Block fall off. For paladin in particular, you get up to three abilities that become available when you block and not using them is foolish but that's your 4.5 seconds added into your rotation right there.

You've only got so many fingers and so many buttons you can properly reach with those fingers. So you can take what works best for you and leave the rest behind, but you're never going to be using everything all the time. You just won't have time.
#15 Feb 10 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
I'm mostly familiar with cleric builds (and within that healer focused builds). I haven't explored the other callings too much.

Your Cleric build is fairly good, but I'd make a few tweaks.

1) You do not need to take Healing Invocation in the Sentinel tree. Purifiers have Restorative Flame, which is nearly identical (though baseline it does have slightly worse efficiency and HPS). However you have Restorative Flame talented so that it shield for 60% of your wisdom, which will almost certainly make it better in the HPS and efficiency department than Healing Invocation.

2) Take 5 points out of Warden and put them into Sentinel. You lose +10% mana, a damage spell you probably won't use as a healer, and the ability to cure curse (situationally meaningful). I haven't seen mana be too much of a problem, but if you're still concerned you can put the 5 points into Sentinel's Light Concentration to get 10% cheaper heals (and since this is a healing build that may as well be 10% mana). You gain a lot though. You have the option to put those 5 talent points in some potentially useful abilities such as Enraptured Breath, Protect the Flock, and Luminous Gaze. I haven't tested these personally, but they might be great, especially Enraptured Breath. The biggest gain is Healer's Covenant (ally receives 40% less damage 10 seconds). This is perhaps the best emergency healer ability in the game. It is far too good to pass up. Not only can it save your *** when things get bad, but it also has some additional utility. For example, my tank buddy and I would often coordinate in big rift invasions so that he uses his big aoe taunt at the same time I use Healer's Covenant. It was an awesome combo that took a lot of pressure off our raid.



Edited, Feb 10th 2011 1:06am by Allegory




Great information. That was my question to you actually concerning if there is any use in the warden tree at all in this archetype.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10eGj..ExoEctdqz.E00tbc

Here's the refined model. After this consideration, I was looking into the 3rd soul tree. Obviously no points will be put here, but the Druid has a base pet with a healing component. Seems to be a better option than having an empty warden tree. I'd imagine the untalented hot is completely useless in comparison to a passive pet.
#16 Feb 10 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
Here's the refined model. After this consideration, I was looking into the 3rd soul tree. Obviously no points will be put here, but the Druid has a base pet with a healing component. Seems to be a better option than having an empty warden tree. I'd imagine the untalented hot is completely useless in comparison to a passive pet.

I think the druid Faerie heals for slightly more than the warden spell, but I'm not absolutely certain of that. I know both are HoTs of the same duration. Optionally it can do a measly amount of damage.

I think you'd be right though. With no points spent in Warden, then Druid would be a better 3rd soul if the faerie heals more.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 1:25am by Allegory
#17 Feb 10 2011 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Let's hope we can see some constant support like Blizzard does with WoW. I don't mind bloat or class imbalances as long as they are being addressed and not being ignored. WoW was fairly bad in it's original state, especially talent wise. If RIFT's progression continues, it could be an excellent game to continue with.


@Allegory, yea just a thought. I haven't begun to look at Sentinel or Warden based specs. I'll probably do that next. I'm quite certain I'll main a healer come time of release.
#18 Feb 10 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Ekye wrote:
Here's the refined model. After this consideration, I was looking into the 3rd soul tree. Obviously no points will be put here, but the Druid has a base pet with a healing component. Seems to be a better option than having an empty warden tree. I'd imagine the untalented hot is completely useless in comparison to a passive pet.

I think the druid Faerie heals for slightly more than the warden spell, but I'm not absolutely certain of that. I know both are HoTs of the same duration. Optionally it can do a measly amount of damage.

I think you'd be right though. With no points spent in Warden, then Druid would be a better 3rd soul if the faerie heals more.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 1:25am by Allegory


The faerie heal is not very good, same goes for his DPS. It is also not very reliable and has a casting time. Later in the druid soul you can improve it, but still can not beat the first tier warden HoT.

Warden is a solid healer as long as you can get your HoT's rolling combined with the purifer and the sentinal you can't go wrong :) And "deluge" is just, well, awesome :D

Myself going for Inq/Cab/Wrd as leveling role and taking the other 2 healing souls for pure healer.
#19 Feb 10 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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So you'd recommend the untalented HoT over the untalented faerie? Neither of us are arguing the Warden tree isn't solid on the deep end. The build was purifier variation. I do plan to get Warden and Sentinel builds up today.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 12:12pm by Ekye

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:27pm by Ekye
#20 Feb 10 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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First run at Warden Variation. It actually turned out to be more of a Sentinel build due to nature of some of the Warden talents being less than useful.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10Gej..xE00qzRqz.E00tbsxsR


Having trouble moving down the tree without taking filler talents.



Edited, Feb 10th 2011 2:18pm by Ekye

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 3:39pm by Ekye
#21 Feb 10 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Ekye wrote:
So you'd recommend the untalented HoT over the untalented faerie?


Yes absolutely :) You can increase your 1st Tier HoT through your soul trainer at specific levels. So in the end Healing Spray will be a level 50 skill even though you do not spend any more points in the Warden soul. Same goes for the Faerie of course, but the difference stays the same.
#22 Feb 10 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Cool. This was another variation I came up with today:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10_jG..E0EtbstsR.xxoVczz


#23 Feb 10 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ekye wrote:
Cool. This was another variation I came up with today:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10_jG..E0EtbstsR.xxoVczz




I did not focus on cleric healing a lot in beta, I leave that to release :) But what I have heard in 6 is that mana is an issue. I understand that Trion is thinking of increasing mana regen but we can only guess what happens and what changes Trion brings us.

In this regard, I would say Spirit Guidance could be a very important skill. Increasing your wisdom by 5% So for every 100 Wisdom you will get 7.5 MP10, 2.5 crit increase and around 4 SP. Up to you if you find that increase viable but can imagine it is becoming an huge advantage the higher you get.

You just need to test things out yourself until you find the build which fits your playstyle. All three cleric healing souls are different. It is easy to change souls and rolls in the game.
#24 Feb 10 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Shoomy wrote:
Yes absolutely :) You can increase your 1st Tier HoT through your soul trainer at specific levels. So in the end Healing Spray will be a level 50 skill even though you do not spend any more points in the Warden soul. Same goes for the Faerie of course, but the difference stays the same.

The question is whether the faerie HoT is better than the Warden HoT. I'm having a lot of difficulty finding out how much the faerie's HoT heals at certain ranks.

This post cites the heal at level 21 (rank 4) being 150 hp over 12 seconds. The Warden's Hot heals more at 16 (rank 5) and 22 (rank 6) at 203 and 257 respectively.

The Warden's HoT is probably better, especially considering the 3 second cast time on the faerie's HoT. However, one additional consideration is the absence of a gcd usage. With the faerie, you can continue to spam your primary heals on the tank unencumbered while using the faerie to top off allies.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 5:22pm by Allegory
#25 Feb 10 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Shoomy wrote:
I did not focus on cleric healing a lot in beta, I leave that to release :) But what I have heard in 6 is that mana is an issue. I understand that Trion is thinking of increasing mana regen but we can only guess what happens and what changes Trion brings us.

My experience is only limited to play up until level 21, doing only the fae instance and rift invasions. However I played a healing cleric in both beta 5 and 6 (5 as sentinel and 6 as warden), and the only way I could run out of mana was spamming aoe heals. Other than that I was never in danger.

Wardens are also the most mana efficient of the three healers, and when I ran the fae instance I literally never dropped below 80% mana, and most of the time never hit below 90%.[/quote]
Ekye wrote:
Cool. This was another variation I came up with today:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10_jG..E0EtbstsR.xxoVczz

Certainly not a bad build.

In theory, I don't think Sentinel and Warden mix as well as the other two combinations. Wardens and Sentinels both have abilities that key off crit heals, which is something a purifier gives you a lot of (5% base, and two 2 minute cd crit abilities). Seninel has skills with shorten casting times, which isn't too relevant for Warden's and their many instant casts. Wardens also make good use of the Wisdom bonus from purifiers.

#26 Feb 10 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Shoomy wrote:
I did not focus on cleric healing a lot in beta, I leave that to release :) But what I have heard in 6 is that mana is an issue. I understand that Trion is thinking of increasing mana regen but we can only guess what happens and what changes Trion brings us.

My experience is only limited to play up until level 21, doing only the fae instance and rift invasions. However I played a healing cleric in both beta 5 and 6 (5 as sentinel and 6 as warden), and the only way I could run out of mana was spamming aoe heals. Other than that I was never in danger.

Wardens are also the most mana efficient of the three healers, and when I ran the fae instance I literally never dropped below 80% mana, and most of the time never hit below 90%.

Ekye wrote:
Cool. This was another variation I came up with today:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10_jG..E0EtbstsR.xxoVczz

Certainly not a bad build.

In theory, I don't think Sentinel and Warden mix as well as the other two combinations. Wardens and Sentinels both have abilities that key off crit heals, which is something a purifier gives you a lot of (5% base, and two 2 minute cd crit abilities). Seninel has skills with shorten casting times, which isn't too relevant for Warden's and their many instant casts. Wardens also make good use of the Wisdom bonus from purifiers.

[/quote]


That was the conclusion I came to as well. I really enjoy the idea of a hot rolling spec, but that being said, quite a few of the Warden talents are fairly iffy.
#27 Feb 10 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
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@Allegory Have you worked with any of the dps cleric specs?


To Anyone - Anyone number crunched the mage specs? I've come up with 2 healing cleric specs and 2 mage specs. I do not pvp at all, but am always willing to listen for any more information or advice.
#28 Feb 10 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
@Allegory Have you worked with any of the dps cleric specs?

I examined the melee specs, though I wasn't able to thoroughly test them. I don't know much about the caster specs.

I'm not sure how Warden melee DPS compares at this point, because they were significantly nerfed in beta 6. They use to do far too much, out dpsing or at least on par with the top warrior and rogue builds. One of the biggest changes was the huge nerf to vengeance of the winter storm, reducing both the base damage and remove the talent that improved it.

The core of the melee DPs build looks something like this. The rest of the points can either be spent in survivability if needed, or jsut spammed into shaman to increase the damage from the passive Call of Ice.

For single target DPS they should buff with Winter's Vengeance and Courage of the Eagle or Jaguar (depending on if you spent enough points in Shaman). Then it's primarily a rotation of refreshing the lightning hammer dot, spamming crushing blow, and using massive blow every single time it is up.

I haven't done the math, but Shaman DPS looks like it could have some interesting itemization. Crit is extremely important to them, as they effectively get +50% crit damage (perhaps more depending on whether the effects work additively or geometrically), and even more from massive blow crits.

Massive blow is their biggest damage ability by far, and it might be the case that it generates more DPS to ignore lightning hammer altogether and just use crushing blow again hoping to proc a free Massive blow.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 6:22pm by Allegory
#29 Feb 10 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Hum. I only started looking into the "Shadow Priest" variation in rift. Didn't even occur to me to consider a melee cleric, but then again I didn't give the trees too much of a look either. Our group are trying to sort out roles at the moment. I may end up tanking sadly, but oh well.
#30 Feb 10 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Oops! I'll fix it tomorrow. Sleepy time now. >.>


Fixed and now more Rifty! Since I am not really playing much WoW anymore atm. >.>




Edited, Feb 10th 2011 6:04pm by Shojindo
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#31 Feb 10 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Master Shojindo wrote:
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Oops! I'll fix it tomorrow. Sleepy time now. >.>


Fixed and now more Rifty! Since I am not really playing much WoW anymore atm. >.>




Edited, Feb 10th 2011 6:04pm by Shojindo



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#32 Feb 10 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Massive blow is their biggest damage ability by far, and it might be the case that it generates more DPS to ignore lightning hammer altogether and just use crushing blow again hoping to proc a free Massive blow.

So I just ran a quick test on this. This was a completely wrong hypothesis. It's much better to always rotate in Lightning HAmmer when you can.

I was always surprised to see that Lightning Hammer contributes about the same damage per hit as Massive bloe (even with MB's improved crit chance and damage). At around 200 weapon+attackpower damage they are even.
#33 Feb 10 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting. Are you planning on running a dps spec as one of your four? I haven't looked into all the alternatives, but I know as far as tanking, I can certainly come up with 3, if not 4 useful alternative pve specs.
#34 Feb 10 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Racial abilities (first 2 are pasive, third is instant cast with 5 min cooldown)

Dwarf (Guardians)
- Water resistance increased by 20
- Endurance increased by 5%
- 30% health over 6s

High Elf (Guardians)
- Life resist increased by 20
- Healing received increased by 3%
- Increasing mana, charge, energy and power regeneration for next 15s

Mathosian (Guardian)
- Death resist increased by 20
- Increase all dmg by 1%
- Healing them for half dmg they receive each hit for next 30s up to total of half their hit points

Eth (Defiant)
- Earth resist increased by 20
- Str, Dex, Int, Wis, Endurance increased by 2%
- Shield absorbing dmg equal to 25% of their max health for 20s

Kelari (Defiant)
- Fire resist increased by 20
- Crit strikes deal 10% more dmg, crit heals return 10% more
- Increasing Crit Hit chance by 10% for 15s

Bahmi (Defiant)
- Air resist increased by 20
- Reduce all dmg taken by 2%
- Increase spell and attack power by 40% for 10s



Are these accurate for the current meta-game? Any ideas where you will end up?
#35 Feb 10 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
Interesting. Are you planning on running a dps spec as one of your four? I haven't looked into all the alternatives, but I know as far as tanking, I can certainly come up with 3, if not 4 useful alternative pve specs.

I might, but mostly I just enjoy doing math for fun. Rift happens to provide a few simple to solve optimization problems with some fun kinks.
Ekye wrote:
Are these accurate for the current meta-game? Any ideas where you will end up?

Nope. They were completely changed for Beta 6, because Defiant had far superior racials.

Racials were changed to a small +10 stat bonus to help characterize the race (such as elves getting +wisdom), and an out of combat ability that doesn't do all that much. Most of them are movement related.

Edited, Feb 10th 2011 9:27pm by Allegory
#36 Feb 10 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Cleric does seem so **** interesting... so tempting to play one if I really could effectively DPS, Heal, and Tank, in respective specs if I worked towards getting the additional specs. My highest character in the beta is a Justicar / Shaman, and the guy was an absolute beast. That build also seems like it'd be incredible support / annoyance (for the enemy) in PvP; having limited healing and being ridiculously hard to kill.

I had planned on going Warrior > Champion 2h dps on release, but a Cleric's versatility is really desirable. Who knows whether there will be a lack of healers / tanks on whatever server I happen to get on, and being able to fulfill those rolls when needed would be great. I have no idea how hard (or even feasible) it would be to get gearsets for the three different roles though, in this game. In WoW gear gets thrown at you so it's easily doable, but I'm not too knowledgeable about how it works yet in Rift.

Only time will tell, I suppose.
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#37 Feb 10 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah. You have any idea where you'll end up?
#38 Feb 10 2011 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Fahros wrote:
I have no idea how hard (or even feasible) it would be to get gearsets for the three different roles though

Fairly easy. Healers and DPS will want wisdom and intelligence; tanks will want wisdom and endurance.
#39 Feb 10 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Fahros wrote:
Cleric does seem so **** interesting... so tempting to play one if I really could effectively DPS, Heal, and Tank, in respective specs if I worked towards getting the additional specs. My highest character in the beta is a Justicar / Shaman, and the guy was an absolute beast. That build also seems like it'd be incredible support / annoyance (for the enemy) in PvP; having limited healing and being ridiculously hard to kill.

I had planned on going Warrior > Champion 2h dps on release, but a Cleric's versatility is really desirable. Who knows whether there will be a lack of healers / tanks on whatever server I happen to get on, and being able to fulfill those rolls when needed would be great. I have no idea how hard (or even feasible) it would be to get gearsets for the three different roles though, in this game. In WoW gear gets thrown at you so it's easily doable, but I'm not too knowledgeable about how it works yet in Rift.

Only time will tell, I suppose.



Yea. I think our group is planning on using the beta to make some decisions on our starting mains to test the water. Really our main goal is to figure out how to shape our recruitment if we opt to make a guild.
#40 Feb 10 2011 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it safe/acceptable to post a guild recruitment thread on these forums if we opt to go that route? I think I say another post, but I don't want to bend any rules these forums have.
#41 Feb 11 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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A couple people have done it already. I have already expressed my plans to start a guild specifically for Zam users, but you are more than welcome to start your own guild if that is what you desire.
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#42 Feb 11 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Ekye wrote:
Racial abilities (first 2 are pasive, third is instant cast with 5 min cooldown)

....

Are these accurate for the current meta-game? Any ideas where you will end up?


Those racials you posted were from B5. In B6 there was a complete overhaul. Can only say for Mathosian who got +10 Dex some passive resist and 15sec OOC speed buff every 2 min.

Iirc Dwarf got +10 strength, resist and 15y jump and High elf +10 int with some resist.
#43 Feb 11 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the information. I think our group will be forming a Guardian guild, given the racial abilities do not seem to make a major difference. Unsure of the server currently, but certainly will be on a PvE server. Now on considering a name--Tsk tsk. Stuck between Vanguard, Pantheon, Risen, Titan, Forte, Transcended, Might, and Sovereign currently. Any suggestions?!
#44 Feb 11 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I found a site that tracked servers. Are the servers currently denoted by time zone?

Edited, Feb 11th 2011 3:30pm by Ekye
#45 Feb 11 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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1) Will RIFT'S interface be customizable as WoW's interface is? Will their be an "interface" folder where any and all modifications to the UI (Meters, Unit Frames (I prefer raid frames only and 100% only use Grid in WoW), Casting Bar, Action Bar, etc.) can be done?

I didn't see any reply specifically to the interface folder part so:

Trion integrated an import function in the main menu where u can import all or parts of a character's customizations.
Once you make one toon you can recreate the same ui, autoloot, profanity filter, blah blah blah, for all subsequent toons with one click of a button. About **** time imo.
#46 Feb 11 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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acerfactum wrote:
1) Will RIFT'S interface be customizable as WoW's interface is? Will their be an "interface" folder where any and all modifications to the UI (Meters, Unit Frames (I prefer raid frames only and 100% only use Grid in WoW), Casting Bar, Action Bar, etc.) can be done?

I didn't see any reply specifically to the interface folder part so:

Trion integrated an import function in the main menu where u can import all or parts of a character's customizations.
Once you make one toon you can recreate the same ui, autoloot, profanity filter, blah blah blah, for all subsequent toons with one click of a button. About **** time imo.



Well. I think my question was more geared toward will RIFT allow for 3rd party development at all?
#47 Feb 11 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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From their posts on the website ,regarding third party,it was apparent they would not support it at least at launch anyway.
#48 Feb 11 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Sad, but true. Quite frustrating, but perhaps the UI won't be so awful.
#49 Feb 11 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone know if the servers will be denoted by time zone?
#50 Feb 15 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Shoomy wrote:
Ekye wrote:
So you'd recommend the untalented HoT over the untalented faerie?


Yes absolutely :) You can increase your 1st Tier HoT through your soul trainer at specific levels. So in the end Healing Spray will be a level 50 skill even though you do not spend any more points in the Warden soul. Same goes for the Faerie of course, but the difference stays the same.


Actually, even more importantly than the amount of healing done by the HoT cast by the faerie is the fact that its HoT has a cast time, whereas the Warden HoT does not; this is defrayed of course by the fact that the faerie is casting separately from your GCD and mana pool, but still not worth it as has already been said; but those were just my two cents on some unmentioned variables.
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