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#1 Mar 02 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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As a former WoW and FFXI addict I've been around all kinds of players over the years. The overly polite, almost pretentious FFXI types to the overly hardcore raider type in WoW. In Rift I've found people from both sides of the coin, but I'm beginning to get a little irritated with the "go back to wow" bullsh*t. Anytime a player has a suggestion or the smallest complaint, someone get's their panties twisted and automatically labels that person a WoW player; as if that's a bad thing. The WoW raiders for the most part will be the people to conquer this game and pave the way for the casuals and people who don't know how to maximize their character's potential.

I'm a bit tired of these "I want to play how I want to play, even if my spec is sh*tty" types going into nerd rage every time anyone is discussing an optimal spec. I understand that some people are trying to avoid cookie cutter builds and theorycraft from taking over this game, but it's inevitable isn't it? Some people play to fantasize and role play as whatever terrible combination they choose, others play to do the best at something. I don't run into groups talking about lore and RP and **** in their lemonade so why do they feel they have to put us down for talking numbers? If there is anything I actually like about the WoW community, it's that it breeds competition and most people I come across strive to achieve their maximum output; whether it be dps,heals,support of some kind, or tanking. Even if they fail at it, they're open to criticism and want to contribute more.

I left the RP server I started on in the beginning and moved to a PvP server to avoid just this.
Is it just my server in Rift that seems to encourage the exact opposite of this? What have you guys noticed so far?


Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 11:27am by Transmigration
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#2 Mar 02 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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The first thing I did when I created a character was leave all the public chat channels.
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#3 Mar 02 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Vataro wrote:
The first thing I did when I created a character was leave all the public chat channels.


I may just do that. I don't want to come off as a jerk, because I'm really not. I just can't mind my own business when this stuff is going on in chat. When people are ganging up on other players that I relate to I feel like they're attacking my buddies. I have a pretty cool guild that likes to run things, I suppose I don't need chat to form groups either.
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#4 Mar 02 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Exactly. There's no need for it, you'll just run into a bunch of morons who will get on your nerves and lessen your enjoyment of the game.
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#5 Mar 02 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this because someone is going to read one word in this post and wig out, but imma say it anyways.

Carebears whine a lot. Give them a reason to whine and they're all over it. "Hardcore players ruin the game." "Theorycrafting ruins the game." "Damage meters ruin the game." Someone posted on the Trion boards about how they were concerned that they got to level 48 during the headstart and had to grind the last two levels. That was their concern...that they ran out of quests and had to grind two levels. Now if this was a concern that had been brought forward three months from now, it would be no big deal. People would either agree and commiserate or they would point out that the OP had missed something along the way. Simple, right? Nope. As of last night it was 12 pages or so of, "lol you hit level cap in less than 5 days and you're complaining that leveling is too slow?!?!? People like you are ruining this genre."

(Related aside to avert undue concern: the OP must have missed some things to have hit 48 and run out of quests.)

I'll just say this...let the carebears take their buttersheep solo builds to Iron Pine Peaks and have a go at some of the humanoids on the SW edge of the map and under the tower on the border to Stillmoor. They're some of the most obnoxious non-elite mobs I've ever encountered in any MMO I've ever played and once it finally dawned on me that it was adding a ton of interest for me, I was actually appreciative of it. (I wasn't so appreciative the first time a rogue kicked me in the nuts at the same time as a marksman booted me backwards and went all machine gun on my ***. And that's just a minor example of obnoxious.)

Carebear buttersheep ruin MMOs.
#6 Mar 02 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default
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Transmigration wrote:
As a former WoW and FFXI addict I've been around all kinds of players over the years. The overly polite, almost pretentious FFXI types to the overly hardcore raider type in WoW.
Just wondering how you'd describe EQ players and/or Warhammer players.

Secondly, I vote this thread gets move to forum=4.
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#7 Mar 02 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
As a former WoW and FFXI addict I've been around all kinds of players over the years. The overly polite, almost pretentious FFXI types to the overly hardcore raider type in WoW.
Just wondering how you'd describe EQ players and/or Warhammer players.

Secondly, I vote this thread gets move to forum=4.


The Asylum? I don't think it was that much of a rant. I'm not sure how to describe EQ players because I've never played it. As far as Warhammer goes, I played that game for about two weeks and never really understood the alure. My point is that it's not smart to try and push potential paying subscribers away from your precious just because they're concerned with optimizing their playstyle.

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#8 Mar 02 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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you also have to remember this is 2 days after launch. Honest-to-god chat trolls (yes, they were almost all from WoW) are still around and most people are just tired of it, especially with how bad it was during open beta.

So, give it a month and reassess. :P
#9 Mar 02 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
As a former WoW and FFXI addict I've been around all kinds of players over the years. The overly polite, almost pretentious FFXI types to the overly hardcore raider type in WoW.
Just wondering how you'd describe EQ players and/or Warhammer players.

Secondly, I vote this thread gets move to forum=4.


The Asylum? I don't think it was that much of a rant. I'm not sure how to describe EQ players because I've never played it. As far as Warhammer goes, I played that game for about two weeks and never really understood the alure. My point is that it's not smart to try and push potential paying subscribers away from your precious just because they're concerned with optimizing their playstyle.

You make so many 'ahem' claims in the original post it's really hard to tell what your point is. Who's pushing who out of the game?

I'm thinking the population proportions of 'hard core' gamers, selfish gamers, obnoxious gamers, shy gamers, old gamers, etc, etc, is similar to most any mmo. (in other words if it is WoW players that are the first to reach the end-game it's more likely a function of numbers and not 'personality' types). Besides so many people play or have played all these games, so how do you pick which group to stereotype them into?

Use your ignore tools or simply don't read general chat channels if it bugs you so much. This stuff you read doesn't impact your game at all...unless you let it.

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#10 Mar 02 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
Personally, on my shard (Aedraxis), once you're out of Freemarch and 1-9 chat (probably the same for Silverwood chat), the community is perfectly fine. Even Meridian's not half bad at all.

That being said, it gets a little tiresome constantly hearing people whine (yes, whine) about how Rift doesn't have something that WoW has. People are coming to the game practically expecting it to be identical. It's not that people are coming from WoW. ****, I'm coming from WoW. But if you can't enjoy Rift on its own without constantly comparing it to World of Warcraft, whining about things the game doesn't have - You should probably be playing World of Warcraft instead. Nothing against you, this just might not be your game.
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#11 Mar 02 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Neuroticaine wrote:
Personally, on my shard (Aedraxis), once you're out of Freemarch and 1-9 chat (probably the same for Silverwood chat), the community is perfectly fine. Even Meridian's not half bad at all.

That being said, it gets a little tiresome constantly hearing people whine (yes, whine) about how Rift doesn't have something that WoW has. People are coming to the game practically expecting it to be identical. It's not that people are coming from WoW. ****, I'm coming from WoW. But if you can't enjoy Rift on its own without constantly comparing it to World of Warcraft, whining about things the game doesn't have - You should probably be playing World of Warcraft instead. Nothing against you, this just might not be your game.


You raise a valid point, but it's a futile argument. I don't get involved in those kinds of "debates" in-game. It's largely a waste of time. And at the end of the day, nobody is going to change their mind. Addons are coming. Theorycrafting is already well underway. High end raiders are going to be expected to be able to explain why they chose the build that they did and be able to perform at a certain level with that build. People with aversions to playing the game that way are going to get made fun of in PUGs and have applications to raiding guilds declined. It's not a problem with Rift. It's not an issue that stems from one MMO in particular. It's the kind of thing you have to expect when you get several thousand people with varying points of view all crammed into one place trying to assert their opinion over everyone else.

I just play the game. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
#12 Mar 02 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I get tired of the whole "must be a carebear if they complain" mentality. It's absolute crap. Stop thinking like most Americans laboring under a delusion that you exist in a perfect system. There is absolutely nothing wrong with complaining in the face of imperfection and therefore there is NEVER a time where complaining isn't logical. I raided 5-6 days a week in wow and have held number 1 parses for months on end as a mage. I theorycrafted til' I was blue in the face on EJ and did everything I could to be the best player I could be, but..... I complained.. constantly. If there is room for improvement, complaining has it's place. The problem is baseless complaining rather than complaining itself. Modern day MMO's have moved to a multiple option leveling process. RIFT needs 3-4 ways to get to max level. If you are bottle necked into a grind, there definitely is a place for complaining and probably a minimum of 2 devs fired for even remotely getting to that point. Stop trying to claim perfection and start trying to constantly improve. Why do you think Blizzard was so successful? Vanilla wow was absolute crap, but they worked at it. Through endless complaining and scrutiny of their product, they fixed the problems. It didn't come from the users being quiet about anything.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 1:19pm by Ekye
#13 Mar 02 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
As a former WoW and FFXI addict I've been around all kinds of players over the years. The overly polite, almost pretentious FFXI types to the overly hardcore raider type in WoW. In Rift I've found people from both sides of the coin, but I'm beginning to get a little irritated with the "go back to wow" bullsh*t. Anytime a player has a suggestion or the smallest complaint, someone get's their panties twisted and automatically labels that person a WoW player; as if that's a bad thing. The WoW raiders for the most part will be the people to conquer this game and pave the way for the casuals and people who don't know how to maximize their character's potential.

I'm a bit tired of these "I want to play how I want to play, even if my spec is sh*tty" types going into nerd rage every time anyone is discussing an optimal spec. I understand that some people are trying to avoid cookie cutter builds and theorycraft from taking over this game, but it's inevitable isn't it? Some people play to fantasize and role play as whatever terrible combination they choose, others play to do the best at something. I don't run into groups talking about lore and RP and **** in their lemonade so why do they feel they have to put us down for talking numbers? If there is anything I actually like about the WoW community, it's that it breeds competition and most people I come across strive to achieve their maximum output; whether it be dps,heals,support of some kind, or tanking. Even if they fail at it, they're open to criticism and want to contribute more.

I left the RP server I started on in the beginning and moved to a PvP server to avoid just this.
Is it just my server in Rift that seems to encourage the exact opposite of this? What have you guys noticed so far?


Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 11:27am by Transmigration


I just have one thought -- it feels like you're talking about two separate things. Someone bringing up suggestions or complaints in the game chat is pretty much asking for the "idiot" label to be slapped on him/her considering it's far more appropriate to submit a feedback instead. People just want to play--not see pages of whining/criticism/suggestions in the game--but some people don't have the self-control to react the correct way. But public discussion of theorycrafting getting tarred and feathered isn't appropriate either.
#14 Mar 02 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
Future You wrote:
Everyone who does not agree with me and the way I like to play is ruining the game!

I'm now going to whine about how other people whine to much.

I hate those other label players so much. They are not us label players. The games I came from defined the genre, not like those terrible cesspits of a game you came from.

Company name does not care about the players at all. Company name is the best company since Geebus
.


There you go I made a form for arguing any of these cliche topics. Just insert your faction or cause into the underlined areas. Remember only you can win a pointless argument on the internet. Smiley: schooled

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 12:44pm by Shojindo
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#15 Mar 02 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason people don't want the WoW mentality, is because it is a more immature, e-peen - gear score / recount nerd competitive sport community than any other mmo has been or ever will be. Blizzard fostered it with allowing all the 3rd party add -ons that were allowed into the game.

If you want to maximize your build for dps, that is awesome..research it and do it. The simple fact is, other communities are better than WoW's. Whether you want to hear that or not, I dont care, since this is your rant. The spirit of MMORPGS is one of one player helping another to achieve success, not too race to 50, miss all the content, and then tell everyone else how great they are, and how much they suck.

There are some very polite, experienced, old school successful raiders that played WoW that never said 2 words in trade chat. They were from EQ and FF. They understand how much more enjoyable a game is when you don't have idiots ruining chat channels. I pray tha RIFT puts the Kabash on and executes swift and harsh discipline to people violating their code of conduct policy, and they ACTUALLY stick to it. Blizzards policy was written for you to sign and agree to, but was nothing more than a punchline.

Rift has an opportunity in the infancy of its' game to send a message. Treat others well, or get suspended. Period. If you have a problem with someone, take it to tells..not a flame fest in an open channel. Then, maybe all the people that sit in Org all day without leveling or doing anything other than be a social cancer, will return to Azeroth, and they can flame eachother all day.
#16 Mar 02 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Ekye wrote:
I get tired of the whole "must be a carebear if they complain" mentality. It's absolute crap. Stop thinking like most Americans laboring under a delusion that you exist in a perfect system. There is absolutely nothing wrong with complaining in the face of imperfection and therefore there is NEVER a time where complaining isn't logical. I raided 5-6 days a week in wow and have held number 1 parses for months on end as a mage. I theorycrafted til' I was blue in the face on EJ and did everything I could to be the best player I could be, but..... I complained.. constantly. If there is room for improvement, complaining has it's place. The problem is baseless complaining rather than complaining itself. Modern day MMO's have moved to a multiple option leveling process. RIFT needs 3-4 ways to get to max level. If you are bottle necked into a grind, there definitely is a place for complaining and probably a minimum of 2 devs fired for even remotely getting to that point. Stop trying to claim perfection and start trying to constantly improve. Why do you think Blizzard was so successful? Vanilla wow was absolute crap, but they worked at it. Through endless complaining and scrutiny of their product, they fixed the problems. It didn't come from the users being quiet about anything.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 1:19pm by Ekye


Not sure if that was directed at me, but in the event that it was...

I'm not saying people are carebears because they complain. I'm saying that the lion's share of complaints I see right now are from carebears. How they ended up carebears, I have no idea. Carebears don't want addons because addons lead to damage meters which means their performance in groups is going to be evaluated. And when they were finally beat about the head and chest enough for them to finally accept the reality that Trion is working on the API for addons, all of a sudden they want an option to hide their numbers from the combat logs. Like if you're in a party and Bob the Beastmaster smacks a mob and it shows in YOUR combat log that they hit the mob and how much damage Bob did? Ya. That. They want the option to block that so you can't see it. Because if you can see it you can parse it and if you can parse it you can judge them.

They don't want people theorycrafting and determining optimal builds for this or that because the carebears don't want to feel like they're being forced into something. As long as nobody knows what works and what doesn't, their buttersheep build is just as good as anyone else'. Because...you know...it's better to take a spot and do little and have a run take twice as long as it needed to because they're having the time of their life and the other people just joined to facilitate that for them, right?

People are complaining about premades in warfronts already. They're complaining about anything to do with PvP on PvE servers (they screamed for a solid week about the ancient wardstones). They're complaining that warriors are warriors which means melee only and omgwtf I can't kite warriors all day long because they can pewpew me, too?

And if ANYONE comes along and suggests that they're making mountains out of molehills, the carebears are quick to jump to the "go back to WoW" anti-elitist diatribe. That's the standard defense. If you don't fall in line with the carebear regime, you are branded elitist WoW trash and told to go elsewhere.

I reckon some folks just need a hug.
#17 Mar 02 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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I think it's funny that elitest and WoW were put into the same sentence seeing as other people in this thread have stated that the "best" people in WoW are those who played EQ and FF and apparently understand things better than us WoW babies. Frankly I wouldn't have posted but I really do have to say this.

You're doing the EXACT same thing that you're complaining about when you say that it's only WoW that has fostered these types of people. You're not better than we are simply because you came from another game that we didn't. All types of games that have competition have people who complain, whine, or brag. The fact that you're posting in general about something you find to be wrong means that you're inviting people to express their opinions and then you're coming onto the forums to complain when they did.

Honestly, yes I hate the WoW trolls that spam general chat (especially the 1-9) but honestly if you're posting your complaints then someone has a right to tell you to go back to WoW even if that's not where you come from. Stop posting in general, stop blaming WoW for things that are present in every game, and make a valid, well thought out argument for what you think it wrong with the game TO TRION.
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#18 Mar 02 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Master Shojindo wrote:
Future You wrote:
Everyone who does not agree with me and the way I like to play is ruining the game!

I'm now going to whine about how other people whine to much.

I hate those other label players so much. They are not us label players. The games I came from defined the genre, not like those terrible cesspits of a game you came from.

Company name does not care about the players at all. Company name is the best company since Geebus
.


There you go I made a form for arguing any of these cliche topics. Just insert your faction or cause into the underlined areas. Remember only you can win a pointless argument on the internet. Smiley: schooled

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 12:44pm by Shojindo


LOL - Smiley: cookie
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#19 Mar 02 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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ljpjjmk7 wrote:
The reason people don't want the WoW mentality, is because it is a more immature, e-peen - gear score / recount nerd competitive sport community than any other mmo has been or ever will be. Blizzard fostered it with allowing all the 3rd party add -ons that were allowed into the game.


What does immaturity have to do with discussing efficiency? You talk about recount like it's a gun so I'll just say recount doesn't ruin games, people do. Telling someone to go back to wow and/or labeling them immature nerds is about as hypocritical as it gets.

ljpjjmk7 wrote:
The spirit of MMORPGS is one of one player helping another to achieve success, not too race to 50, miss all the content, and then tell everyone else how great they are, and how much they suck.


No one said anything about rushing to 50 and putting people down. It seems that some people have already formed their own bias. Go on hating WoW and everything you think of it and it's community but, if anything, you're acting just like the jerks I was complaining about; further proving my point.

Quote:
There are some very polite, experienced, old school successful raiders that played WoW that never said 2 words in trade chat. They were from EQ and FF. They understand how much more enjoyable a game is when you don't have idiots ruining chat channels. I pray tha RIFT puts the Kabash on and executes swift and harsh discipline to people violating their code of conduct policy, and they ACTUALLY stick to it. Blizzards policy was written for you to sign and agree to, but was nothing more than a punchline.


I absolutely agree with you, especially since I stated earlier that I played FF. In fact, twice as long as I've played warcraft. The kibosh however needs to be put on both sides, whether they're pro or anti wow. My irritation didn't come from ex-wow players, it comes from the anti-wow people. If a guy is running around yelling WoW rules and this game sucks, then he deserves to be shut up as well.

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#20 Mar 02 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Ekye wrote:
I get tired of the whole "must be a carebear if they complain" mentality. It's absolute crap. Stop thinking like most Americans laboring under a delusion that you exist in a perfect system. There is absolutely nothing wrong with complaining in the face of imperfection and therefore there is NEVER a time where complaining isn't logical. I raided 5-6 days a week in wow and have held number 1 parses for months on end as a mage. I theorycrafted til' I was blue in the face on EJ and did everything I could to be the best player I could be, but..... I complained.. constantly. If there is room for improvement, complaining has it's place. The problem is baseless complaining rather than complaining itself. Modern day MMO's have moved to a multiple option leveling process. RIFT needs 3-4 ways to get to max level. If you are bottle necked into a grind, there definitely is a place for complaining and probably a minimum of 2 devs fired for even remotely getting to that point. Stop trying to claim perfection and start trying to constantly improve. Why do you think Blizzard was so successful? Vanilla wow was absolute crap, but they worked at it. Through endless complaining and scrutiny of their product, they fixed the problems. It didn't come from the users being quiet about anything.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 1:19pm by Ekye


Not sure if that was directed at me, but in the event that it was...

I'm not saying people are carebears because they complain. I'm saying that the lion's share of complaints I see right now are from carebears. How they ended up carebears, I have no idea. Carebears don't want addons because addons lead to damage meters which means their performance in groups is going to be evaluated. And when they were finally beat about the head and chest enough for them to finally accept the reality that Trion is working on the API for addons, all of a sudden they want an option to hide their numbers from the combat logs. Like if you're in a party and Bob the Beastmaster smacks a mob and it shows in YOUR combat log that they hit the mob and how much damage Bob did? Ya. That. They want the option to block that so you can't see it. Because if you can see it you can parse it and if you can parse it you can judge them.

They don't want people theorycrafting and determining optimal builds for this or that because the carebears don't want to feel like they're being forced into something. As long as nobody knows what works and what doesn't, their buttersheep build is just as good as anyone else'. Because...you know...it's better to take a spot and do little and have a run take twice as long as it needed to because they're having the time of their life and the other people just joined to facilitate that for them, right?

People are complaining about premades in warfronts already. They're complaining about anything to do with PvP on PvE servers (they screamed for a solid week about the ancient wardstones). They're complaining that warriors are warriors which means melee only and omgwtf I can't kite warriors all day long because they can pewpew me, too?

And if ANYONE comes along and suggests that they're making mountains out of molehills, the carebears are quick to jump to the "go back to WoW" anti-elitist diatribe. That's the standard defense. If you don't fall in line with the carebear regime, you are branded elitist WoW trash and told to go elsewhere.

I reckon some folks just need a hug.



Oh definitely not directed in any specific direction. Wall of text rant is just that. In the matter of add-ons, complaints, etc. I ask why do they come about? Why would I want to have an add-on that parses every player's combat log for me and shows exactly who died to what instead of guessing? Why would I want to have a loot menu that doesn't take up 3/4ths of the screen when, frankly, loot is by far the least important part of my night? Why would I want a raid frame that is set up to visually show me whats important and priority over whats not? These all come about, because the developers didn't see fit to fix the issues. Add-ons and complaints don't come as a result of people wanting to hear themselves talk. They come as a result of the short comings of an imperfect game... which isn't good or bad, but rather necessary. Imperfection is great. It's what gives meaning to games.. .striving to improve.
#21 Mar 02 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Shujiko wrote:
I think it's funny that elitest and WoW were put into the same sentence seeing as other people in this thread have stated that the "best" people in WoW are those who played EQ and FF and apparently understand things better than us WoW babies. Frankly I wouldn't have posted but I really do have to say this.

You're doing the EXACT same thing that you're complaining about when you say that it's only WoW that has fostered these types of people. You're not better than we are simply because you came from another game that we didn't. All types of games that have competition have people who complain, whine, or brag. The fact that you're posting in general about something you find to be wrong means that you're inviting people to express their opinions and then you're coming onto the forums to complain when they did.

Honestly, yes I hate the WoW trolls that spam general chat (especially the 1-9) but honestly if you're posting your complaints then someone has a right to tell you to go back to WoW even if that's not where you come from. Stop posting in general, stop blaming WoW for things that are present in every game, and make a valid, well thought out argument for what you think it wrong with the game TO TRION.



Wrong. Let me list the games that I have played. EQ, DAOC, EQ2, WoW, LotRo, Warhammer, Aion. Without a doubt, and it is not even close, WoW had the WORST community. Not at the start mind you. Gear Score / Recount brought SO MUCH trolling and the worst out of people that were looking for some way to self inflate their own egos, and put other people down.

I am all for personal tools like recount to track dps, that give you accurate feedback so you can improve your character. Do your researching on forums / websites. Keep all the childish bickering / d*ick measuring contest out of the chat channels.

And the fact you are telling me to go back to WoW, doesn't fit the argument buddy. Out of the 7 games that I have played over the last 12 years, WoW IS the worst. That is a fact. So, when I see the same attitudes and childish behavior in RIFT, I call it what it is...WoW chat.

There are ways to theory craft, parse dps/heals, without having add-on like tools in game that contribute to the deterioration of a community.

Point is. Worry about yourself. Group with a player a few times before you judge him. If you feel he isn't good at his role, don't party with him anymore.

Cookie cutter builds that High End PvPers or PvEers post, is their preference, and suits their playstyle. Not the be all end all. And I know for a fact, that those same players can reach the same numbers using a different build.

But then uninformed people start making uninformed decisions about another players ability based on how some Arena Gladiator is set up, when in fact, that same Arena Gladiator would still be a Gladiator with a different set up...that is just the one he prefers.
#22 Mar 02 2011 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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ljpjjmk7 wrote:
Wrong. Let me list the games that I have played. EQ, DAOC, EQ2, WoW, LotRo, Warhammer, Aion. Without a doubt, and it is not even close, WoW had the WORST community. Not at the start mind you.

Cool opinion. You think the deterioration had anything to do with the fact that 12 million people were eventually playing? A lot of them not dungeons & dragons playing gamers, but rather people who you wouldn't normally socialize with? I don't think this has anything to do with recount.

ljpjjmk7 wrote:
I am all for personal tools like recount to track dps, that give you accurate feedback so you can improve your character. Do your researching on forums / websites. Keep all the childish bickering / d*ick measuring contest out of the chat channels.

Ok, so recount is fine now. Just don't share the information with your group.

ljpjjmk7 wrote:
And the fact you are telling me to go back to WoW, doesn't fit the argument buddy. Out of the 7 games that I have played over the last 12 years, WoW IS the worst. That is a fact my opinion.


ljpjjmk7 wrote:

Cookie cutter builds that High End PvPers or PvEers post, is their preference, and suits their playstyle. Not the be all end all. And I know for a fact, that those same players can reach the same numbers using a different build.

No actually, mathematically, they can't. Why would someone "cookie cut" a spec that didn't parse better? Situational, as far as CC goes, it may perform better.. but reaching the same numbers is actually impossible.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 6:54pm by Transmigration
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#23 Mar 02 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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Cool opinion. You think the deterioration had anything to do with the fact that 12 million people were eventually playing? A lot of them not dungeons & dragons playing gamers, but rather people who you wouldn't normally socialize with? I don't think this has anything to do with recount.

Put a gun in a crowded room with angry people, someone is gonna get shot, eventually

Put a recovering alcoholic in a bar, he is going to get drunk, eventually

Put a DPS tracking system in like recount, and people will abuse it, eventually.

Point is, it isn't a necessary tool. Everything you want to accomplish in the game can be accomplished without recount.

Also, let's say there is a short period of time where a certain souls DPS is a touch higher than anothers, and that is not what was intended by the Devs. You want to give hundreds of thousands of crying competitive gamers a tool to be a never ending judge/jury crying for nerfs/buffs? How about trusting the fact the Devs are constantly looking at certain numbers and will make adjustments accordingly.

Transparency in business isn't always the best decision. Proprietary secrets are sometimes essential for survival. If anyone should know this, it is WoW players. Look at the forums now with cries for nerfs/buffs.



Edited, Mar 2nd 2011 7:13pm by ljpjjmk7
#24 Mar 02 2011 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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I've actually found that the public channels are a breath of fresh air, coming from seven/eight years of World of Warcraft.

Haven't had any of the situations mentioned in the OP. Quite contrary, to be honest. Someone came in and started calling people retards for playing the game the way they enjoyed it. Someone told him to be nice instead of acting like a kid and he went completely berserk.

Didn't take long before he'd made everyone his enemy and he left.

Honestly, though, I'd rather have people play the game they want and enjoy it than everyone going "lolz u need a pa/re/vk build 2 tank nob" because I've had enough years of that crap in the other game.

For instance, I went into a dungeon today as a Paladin/Reaver/Void Knight and had a blast killing stuff. Sure, I lost aggro to the Necromancer's pet (tanking pet) and the Beastmaster in the group enjoyed running ahead and pulling stuff constantly. We also wiped once and I died twice due to lack of healing and overpulling.

And it was the best time I've had in a MMO in a long time. Why? Because no one was screaming "OMG UR A FAIL TANK/HEAL/DPS U ****** L2P!!!1" at anyone. People died, group wiped, people giggled and said that **** happens, and we carried on. The only one doing any nerdraging was me, because I realized, to my horror, that I had been too scarred by the years of running dungeons in WoW. At one point I told the Beastmaster to stop pulling stuff, but caught myself about to cuss him out and changed it to a "at least pull them over to me :)" instead.

Breath of fresh air.
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#25 Mar 02 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
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Ive done two runs of RoF so far, both times were successful, no wipes, and completed each time. Everyone talked, it was fun to just go through it kill stuff and not trying to top dmg meters, or complaining that someone wasn't holding aggro. Hopefully this mindset continues on throughout the game.
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#26 Mar 03 2011 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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[b][i]Haven't had any of the situations mentioned in the OP. Quite contrary, to be honest. Someone came in and started calling people retards for playing the game the way they enjoyed it. Someone told him to be nice instead of acting like a kid and he went completely berserk.
Didn't take long before he'd made everyone his enemy and he left.[/b][/i]

And thats the way MMOs are supposed to be. Glad to hear you are enjoying it, because I am having a ton of fun also.

#27 Mar 03 2011 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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KTurner wrote:
you also have to remember this is 2 days after launch. Honest-to-god chat trolls (yes, they were almost all from WoW) are still around and most people are just tired of it, especially with how bad it was during open beta.

So, give it a month and reassess. :P


This is a very good remark. IMHO currently Rift chat is strongly under "comparing everything to anything" disease. Not only WOW but also FF, EQ many others. It’s just that WOW has the major impact on gaming society to sounds louder. And I really hope this will pass within a month or so because it's very irritating. For now I just turn-off low-level channels. Because I've played several MMOs but I don't feel like comparing them. Each outstanding game (and so far I look at the Rift as such) has its own gameplay and game style. This is what's making a game unique, then why to compare at all?

My suggestion it's not about who is a former WOW player and who's flaming who I guess. It's about game approach in general. Let's put it like games that tend to be more of a cybersport and games that tend to be more of roleplay. I am a former WOW player and I must admit this game shifting to a cybersport side gradually and as with any sport entrance requirements are high and not everybody are willing or capable of maintaining them.

Rift is a brand new world to explore. No way at this stage for the game to became a cybersport application already. Moreover I guess not all Rift gameplay style fits cybersport conception. Spontaneous and rather reckless rift closing raids are hardly about it probably. Of course there are some people who want to explore builds more than they want to explore the world itself but there are many others as well. Currently I spend more time reading quests and lore than theorycrafting. I don't know if I'm within a majority or a minority of players doing this to be honest. But I'm pretty sure that within a month, two months and actually anytime I could find the players whose game stile will fit with mine. This is one of the greatest sides of good MMO – diversity. And this is what should be preserved not solely roleplay or cybersport approach. At that point I agree that Trion has a unique opportunity to force certain rules of communication between players in chats and to develop specific gamers’ attitude towards the world and other players. These are one of the major tasks of the developer in the role of GM I suppose. Either they will have determination and shape the game to what they want it to be (thus they will choose the players to fit within their approach) or to the shape which is more demanded by the masses accepting what they have on their hands. Either way the community will become more stable in both cases and the month or two is a good period to see and guess at its future shape but not the first two days of the game.

PS: I’m what’s commonly called “carebear” just in case…

Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 5:19am by Harukotyan
#28 Mar 03 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:

Honestly, though, I'd rather have people play the game they want and enjoy it than everyone going "lolz u need a pa/re/vk build 2 tank nob" because I've had enough years of that crap in the other game.


My thoughts exactly. I've definitely outgrown it.
#29 Mar 03 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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What's to mull over? If someone is complaining about the various details of Rift, then they're not satisfied, which in turn means they're not having fun. If it's just a random groan about a bug or two, that's fine with most everyone. These types of complaints don't deserve a 'go back to WoW' staple response.

However, the constant complainers and comparators to Blizzard's supposed 'do-no-wrong' should, really, go back to WoW. While there are a lot of similarities to other games on the market, Rift is its own beast, and 2 million+ subs in 10 days should speak to that. A lot of us are getting tired of hearing both sides of the argument, so do us all a favor, and go back to your respective game you enjoyed prior to Rift if you don't find it suits your needs.
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#30 Mar 03 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Finally the majority are speaking up. There is no place for excessive trolling. Well, there is...but that place is called World of Warcraft.
#31 Mar 03 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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ljpjjmk7 wrote:
There is no place for excessive trolling. Well, there is...but that place is called World of Warcraft.


Or Allakhazam, but you didn't hear it from me! Smiley: um
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