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Why so many "what's the best soul for..."??Follow

#1 Mar 07 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't get me wrong, as a 6 year player of World of Warcraft, I understand min/maxing, and not only it's importance in "hardcore" playing, but also the general tendency of most people to want to play to the best of their potential, which requires, of course, a great spec (and rotation, in many cases). But the one thing that's so amazing, and so revolutionary about Rift, is that the sheer variety of possible specs and the incredible versatility of role mixing, is that it's almost impossible to min max. I'm sure if you want to be a pure dps, pure healer, or pure tank, there probably is a maximum potential build, and as is usually the case, it probably depends on what you're tanking, healing, or dpsing. But if anything, this game would seem to encourage the majority of players not to do that. For instance, a chloromancer mage can be incredibly useful in terms of healing, and while even with a number of points in pyromancer, if he's helping support that group/raid, he's probably not at the top of the dps meters. But I sure wouldn't turn down a chloromancer/pyromancer, because the damage and utility would both be great. Assuming of course the player wasn't bad. But chloromancer/pyromancer isn't something you're likely to see around too much, because it doesn't min/max a singular role. What it is, though, is incredibly creative, and that creativity ought to be a welcome change, both to the group that employs it, and the player that, for the first time in many MMO's, didn't have spec a set of talents proven to be most effective. They're effective at what they creatively decided to do, and what they can do isn't predefined in their calling. Rogues that can tank, clerics in chain that can throw out high melee damage, high caster damage, or actually heal effectively, mages that can heal, the possibilities seem endless. And the incredible amount of variety within calling doesn't lend itself to min/maxing, because the combos, and what those combos can and are meant to achieve, are too variable to max with any certainty, assuming you even know what you want to max in terms of your role.

So what I'm saying is, why is everyone asking what the "best max potential" build is, when for the first time in MMO history, you can be creative AND effective. What if you can make something "strange" work? Why not try it? That's what, in my opinion, makes this game a real competitor to warcraft. We finally don't have devs deciding if mages should be damage or utitility, if hunters should be survivable or fragile. You get to decide. We're finally out of the box, so why is everyone asking to be put back in one?
#2 Mar 07 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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It will be and will always will be entirely possible to min/max.

The Rift devs I think can give the illusion of varied play styles but in the end, you'll have to bow to pressure to spec a certain way, depending on what you're doing. Plus, a lot of abilities are exactly the same.

Now I agree with you that I'd rather have fun than min/max. I love my Reaver/Paragon combo, especially solo. But it's only really viable solo. And in part I think that's fine. At best I can see my self as a 2nd tier damage dealer (also an emergency tank), that is until I see some parses. Then it'd be up to me to sell the build as viable, if it were as good as say a Riftblade build.

MMOs are like schoolyard basketball teams. You'll get picked by your friends and you'll get picked if you look competent. A weird kid with glasses and milky skin throwing the basketball underhanded, probably won't get picked, even if he's good with that shot. That is, if he's a casual player and not on a "static."

Lastly, the game is fun. I've been wanting to try the other builds out anyway, and heck, I (or you, for that matter) might like a cookie-cutter build.

#3 Mar 07 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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To some degree I agree with a lot of what you say. There's a certain amount of pressure to spec a certain way, and truthfully, I have liked "cookie cutter" builds in the past because, usually, they worked. I think I really am talking about soloing and leveling up to a degree. I just can't believe how many people are level 10 asking what they should be speccing. I guess I'd just like to see more people have fun while they can. And, like I said, in pure rolls, I'm sure it's easier to maximize, just given how pure rolls work. As for pvp, however, generally the top tier players, while in "cookie cutter" groups, tend to not have cookie cutter specs. To be good, you may have to go cookie cutter. To better than good, I think, requires a bit of creativity, and I'm just sad to see so many people seem to think they're not capable of that.
#4 Mar 07 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah in the end it sucks that people are too willing to find the "best" spec. Sometimes I'm guilty of that too. I think people in general need some sort of guidance and stability. A cookie-cutter build provides that.

I think Rift provides a good middle ground though. At first I was overwhelmed with what classes to pick and how many abilities I could have with three trees. But really I only use a handful, as I stated, some are redundant.

I kinda fell into the Warrior class and unexpectedly became a Reaver. I'll stick with it until the end, but the really awesome thing is, that I can change it up at anytime and play an entirely different way.
#5 Mar 07 2011 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
Many of the builds that are great for solo are not optimized for groups. That's why I am keeping a solo build, a group build, and a PvP build currently.

Heck if it's your solo build do what ever you want with it. As far as grouping for instances I think many of the synergies for good healing, tanking, or straight dps are still being worked out. Some of them are more obvious than others. I've respeced a ton trying out different things that look good in the builder.


Finding some sweet spots now but I'm going to wait until 50 to post more builds becuase things change so much along the way. Trying something out will often show the true results better than just the potential math. Although the math is important as well.

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#6 Mar 07 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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While leveling it's pretty easy to sell your odd build.

If stuff fails, people adapt and bring what they need. An example was a DD run earlier today. Our healer didn't have the necessary healing to keep me up through the spider boss, so our DPS Cleric was put on off-healing duty. Worked like a charm.

I think the dungeons could use a bit of fine tuning, though. Right now, on some bosses, you need pretty high DPS group-wide, or crazy sick healing, or a very tough tank to not get instantly gibbed on certain abilities (werewolf boss anyone?). Doesn't exactly support the "spec freedom" they're promoting.
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#7 Mar 07 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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#8 Mar 07 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks, I found it fitting.
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#9 Mar 07 2011 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Master Shojindo wrote:
Dig the new Avatar Maz.

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#10 Mar 08 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally feel that the min/max-ing in this game is out weighed by the utility of a build but only if your quirky build is viable in it's primary purpose... ie you have a Healing/DPS spec and want to heal a dungeon, the build your using needs to be good enough to main heal the dungeon without help, or DPS the dungeon without bringing the group down. but with the ease at which you can multi-spec...I really don't see this as an issue.

There are several variables to this argument however, like if you have another person in the party that can Heal and DPS or your tank can help heal himself and the party (hooray for Justicar tanks), or just plain doesn't take that much damage (Riftstalker tanks who know what thy're doing are stupid easy to heal) etc....

But because of the huge variability between builds it is entirely possible you will most likely be in one of these situations.

I guess what this says....is exactly what the OP did. Embrace your differences and make it work, I honestly don't think there could be any combination of party members (so long as you have the required meat shield and good enough heals) that couldn't take down a dungeon if all members involved know how to best take advantage of their quirky build.
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