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EQ Tanks, please stand up!Follow

#1 Mar 10 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
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I was running DSM for the first time last night. My current mage build is a CC build. On the very first pull, tank ran out of his way to attack my poly'ed target, and continued to aoe every opportunity he had, breaking all cc.

In EQ1, tanks valued enchanters/shaman/bards for the utility role they played in successful grps. Unfortunatley, I seem to be getting all the tanks whose only experience tanking is WoW BC and beyond which is aoe gank fest, and don't understand the use of utility - debuff - crowd control - and kiting, in order to ease pressure on healers.

So please. let me hear from some old EQ Tanks, and educate the kiddies on how to do things like line of sight pull casters, call for assists on your target, and not play the game of aoe smash keyboard. Teach them how to split mobs from cced mobs so that you can aoe 2 at a time instead of trying to tank 4 at a time. If tanks don't learn the value of utility/debuff/cc characters and how to play with them, then playing a cc class isnt going to be much fun.
#2 Mar 10 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Good
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To be honest...

I simply tell the groups I am in that I am spamming squirrels, and that they're welcome to break it all they want--as long as I am not the one tanking it.

If anyone asks or comments, I explain the 50% spell haste from Swift Control and 50% increased damage from the first hit from Controlled Opportunity.

I don't normally explain Durable Control though.

Surprisingly enough, few people break my squirrel target after that.
#3 Mar 10 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes because EQ is the only game that required a skilled tank.
#4 Mar 10 2011 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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ljpjjmk7 wrote:
So please. let me hear from some old EQ Tanks, and educate the kiddies on how to do things like line of sight pull casters, call for assists on your target, and not play the game of aoe smash keyboard. Teach them how to split mobs from cced mobs so that you can aoe 2 at a time instead of trying to tank 4 at a time. If tanks don't learn the value of utility/debuff/cc characters and how to play with them, then playing a cc class isnt going to be much fun.

You act like people aoe because they're dumb, but in most of the lower level instances it is the most efficient strategy. You can CC, but it's often not worth taking twice as long to run the instance.

CC has its use and should be used where needed, but it also shouldn't be overused simply because it is an option.

Edited, Mar 10th 2011 11:04pm by Allegory
#5 Mar 11 2011 at 1:55 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
ljpjjmk7 wrote:
So please. let me hear from some old EQ Tanks, and educate the kiddies on how to do things like line of sight pull casters, call for assists on your target, and not play the game of aoe smash keyboard. Teach them how to split mobs from cced mobs so that you can aoe 2 at a time instead of trying to tank 4 at a time. If tanks don't learn the value of utility/debuff/cc characters and how to play with them, then playing a cc class isnt going to be much fun.

You act like people aoe because they're dumb, but in most of the lower level instances it is the most efficient strategy. You can CC, but it's often not worth taking twice as long to run the instance.

CC has its use and should be used where needed, but it also shouldn't be overused simply because it is an option.


I agree. It's good to know that CC is an option if you encounter a situation where there's too much damage coming in for the healer to manage, but CCing just for the sake of CCing is typically a waste of time. In a lot of the expert dungeons I've been doing, I'll pull a pack of 3-4 mobs and they all die at roughly the same time due to all the AoE damage flying around. Having one mob off the in the corner controlled is just that much extra time to finish the pull, and sometimes the trash gets a bit tiresome as it is. Prolonging it needlessly isn't helpful.

When I first started running expert IT, the bomani (sp) trash mobs in pairs were a bit too much for me to tank simultaneously and hope to stay alive and in those cases, we used CC to proper advantage. Now they're less of an issue as a result of some gear upgrades and build tweaks and I have no problems tanking them two at a time. CC is no longer necessary and becomes more of a hindrance than an asset. I'll never give someone a hard time for trying to CC where it's not needed, but I'm not going to start designating CC targets when it's not necessary.
#6 Mar 11 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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ljpjjmk7 wrote:
So please. let me hear from some old EQ Tanks, and educate the kiddies on how to do things like line of sight pull casters, call for assists on your target, and not play the game of aoe smash keyboard. Teach them how to split mobs from cced mobs so that you can aoe 2 at a time instead of trying to tank 4 at a time. If tanks don't learn the value of utility/debuff/cc characters and how to play with them, then playing a cc class isnt going to be much fun.


I rarely LoS these days unless there are 2 or more ranged (ie. bow/arrow type) mobs or more than 2 casters. I can yoink one caster to me and the healer can silence another and I use a taunt to bring it to me. LoS in this game works, and there are usually lots of obstacles to make it viable, but I notice that there's a bit of a delay with some mobs and they end up getting scattered. Since my regular healer likes to load me up with HoTs before a pull, the first time I take a hit and take a tick of healing, everything I haven't touched goes after the healer as soon as it comes around the corner. We've found it usually makes for a cleaner pull to yoink/silence ranged/casters and take them head on.
#7 Mar 11 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
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We talked about this yesterday on the official forums. There just really isn't a need to CC in these lower dugeons right now.

Also, to assist is supper easy in this game. Click on the tanks frame and you are now assiting anything he fights.

Oh and again you left our FFXI!

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 9:55am by nonameoflevi

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 9:56am by nonameoflevi
#8 Mar 11 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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As a RIFT tank, (and WoW tank so deal with it)

Squirreling is useful for a patrol. I will not break a squirrel that is not in the way of my taunts or attacks. If a tank is making a point to break a squirrel yes they are dumb. But if you squirrel a mob in the middle of a group I just pulled them sorry AOE is the way to pull aggro with the occasional single taunt on unruly mobs and you just wasted your mana. If I am holding aggro and staying alive (or even if the tank that broke the squirrel is surviving) and the HEALER is fine with it deal with it.

(And as my friend just reminded me, some tanks break squirrels because SOMEBODY else will. And then it doesn't matter how stressed the Healer is if he gets two shotted because of a stupid DPSer)

And these dungeons aren't very LoS friendly except for IT. I do look for that option but normally I just risk losing aggro on most pulls. I trust that everybody knows what they are doing.

EDIT: Tanks get most blame for bad runs but don't forget that there are cranky DPSers that expect mobs to go down by spamming one attack and lazy healers that think that if they have to try then, their tank is bad, not that they should be putting more effort into healing.

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 11:28am by Danex317
#9 Mar 11 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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nonameoflevi wrote:
Also, to assist is supper easy in this game. Click on the tanks frame and you are now assiting anything he fights.

Well I would suggest have someone else to assist off of, because tanks will often switch targets to maintain aggro on every mob or to grab the lone mob that ran off to the healer.
#10 Mar 14 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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The only thing I remember from my EQ main tanking days was staring at a pair of boots and putting my back to a wall...

I agree though CC'ing helps but isnt always needed, Though if its one less mob to try and control and take damage from why worry unless were doing aoe killing for all mobs at the same pace. Most of the time I try and draw the mobs towards me instead of rushing in which gives plenty of space for CC. Course I havent tried much of it in Rift yet just going off of other MMO experiences.
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