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Warrior Tank suggestions...need helpFollow

#1 Mar 16 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Hey everyone,

Been trying out a tank and loving it, and I wanted to get some thoughts and suggestions on a build and rotation.(follow the Link)

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1chAE.E0Mh0ciczMz.xzVthhz.xV

I am still leveling, but I think this is working well, really survivable and the reactive abilities in paladin give me a little bit of punch.

any suggestions/rotation tips are welcome.


#2 Mar 16 2011 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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3,702 posts
Reverant Protection and Light's Hammer are actually quite good and shouldn't be skipped.

I'd actually take Paladin all the way down to 44 points to get Impassable Guard

Something more along the lines of this: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1chAE.EMRussiszrz.xzVth0z.o

Remember that +hit is a threat stat for Paladins, if you miss with something, then whatever that was generated zero threat and probably wasted energy and certainly a GCD to do it.
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#3 Mar 18 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Something I was wondering when I started my paladin yesterday is, does the Armor % increase from [Defender] stack with the armor % increase from Warlord's [Powerful Countenance]
#4 Mar 18 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Thanks for the advice, does reverent protection apply to the tank as well, or is it just to the rest of the party.
#5 Mar 18 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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3,702 posts
alphafox87 wrote:
Thanks for the advice, does reverent protection apply to the tank as well, or is it just to the rest of the party.


Applies to everyone in range, including yourself... Frankly, yourself is the only one that actually matters, the fact that it does more than that is nice though

Quote:
Something I was wondering when I started my paladin yesterday is, does the Armor % increase from [Defender] stack with the armor % increase from Warlord's [Powerful Countenance]


Sure does, massive stacking armor bonuses go!
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#6 Mar 18 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Hey guys thanks for the help so far. here is a link to the new build. Gonna be pretty light on damage, had to give up the extra damage and healing in the block reactive abilities, but the extra damage mitigation and self heals from Reaver I hope will make up for it.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1chAE.E0Mhs0Vszrz.xzVth0k.xV

#7 Mar 18 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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3,702 posts
Interesting, I'm not sure I would want to lose the damage and healing from the paladin reactive abilities for the simple reason that the Reaver damage abilities like Soul Sickness and Master of the Abyss don't scale with gear. So they won't get stronger as you do. Whereas the shield abilities from Paladin do scale.

Also I'm not sure why you don't want Plaguebringer. You've taken Sinister Intent, so you recognize the value of Reaver dots for generating threat, but you skip the ability that lets you spread that around easily and efficiently?
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#8 Mar 23 2011 at 3:51 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Hi.
I'm only level 21 and have only tanked in IT, so I have no idea how good this build will be endgame.
44 Paladin, 10 Warlord, 12 reaver
I got Paladin as main soul and tossed the rest kinda even in Warlord and Reaver. The points in Warlord gives me +10% armor and +5% block. The points in Reaver gives me damage migration. Since I've only spend 12 points in Reaver I may be missing some AOE, but I'm hopeing that Plauge Bringer can compensate for this.
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TankGirl - Warrior
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#9 Mar 23 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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3,702 posts
MJPsupreme wrote:
Hi.
I'm only level 21 and have only tanked in IT, so I have no idea how good this build will be endgame.
44 Paladin, 10 Warlord, 12 reaver
I got Paladin as main soul and tossed the rest kinda even in Warlord and Reaver. The points in Warlord gives me +10% armor and +5% block. The points in Reaver gives me damage migration. Since I've only spend 12 points in Reaver I may be missing some AOE, but I'm hopeing that Plauge Bringer can compensate for this.


Soul Feast from Reaver is pretty important and it gives you a steady amount of self healing if you can keep Soul Sickness up.
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#10 Mar 23 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
I am in agreement that endgame tanking will be all about a heavy paladin build. However, in the leveling process and basic tanking a heavy reaver build has worked best for me. It just gives you more survivability at lower end. Not sure how many people are aware but soul feast also triggers healing on Creeping Death. Soul Feast+Soul Devour talents are great for self heals. At 42/43 I was healing myself in the 50's/60's (crit in the 90's) per tick on every mob within range. Then you drop Creeping Death and your healing will keep you above 70% with 5 mobs on you (of equal or lower level). I compared this to a heavy paladin build in the same level and it wasn't as good for soloing multiple mobs. However, I had more health and good amount more armor in the paladin build.

I'm thinking at 50 I will be doing a tanking build with 44 paladin/ 22 reaver / 0 warlord (just for battlefield distraction)

Something like this:

44/22/0

EDIT:
I would also like to point out that maintaining aggro as a 33 reaver/24 paladin at level 43 is insanely easy. You have a ton of aoe threat generating abilities. Plague Bringer + Soul Sickness + Necrotic Wounds. Then there's weakening essence, concussion, creeping death (which with the right points heals you over time). The only times I've had problems is if the dumb mage decides to aoe pull instead of letting me do it.

I've also spoken to a few people about elite dungeons and things such as CC are important in those so abilities such as Plague Bringer + Soul Sickness + Necrotic Wounds can get you into trouble there. Which is one of the reason why I will likely switch to a heavy paladin build at 50.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2011 3:09pm by theiron50
#11 Mar 24 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
MJPsupreme wrote:
Hi.
I'm only level 21 and have only tanked in IT, so I have no idea how good this build will be endgame.
44 Paladin, 10 Warlord, 12 reaver
I got Paladin as main soul and tossed the rest kinda even in Warlord and Reaver. The points in Warlord gives me +10% armor and +5% block. The points in Reaver gives me damage migration. Since I've only spend 12 points in Reaver I may be missing some AOE, but I'm hopeing that Plauge Bringer can compensate for this.


Soul Feast from Reaver is pretty important and it gives you a steady amount of self healing if you can keep Soul Sickness up.


Okay. I see your point. When I look at it again the talent do seem to good to pass, if I'm gonna spend points in the reaver tree anyway.

theiron50 wrote:
I am in agreement that endgame tanking will be all about a heavy paladin build. However, in the leveling process and basic tanking a heavy reaver build has worked best for me. It just gives you more survivability at lower end. Not sure how many people are aware but soul feast also triggers healing on Creeping Death. Soul Feast+Soul Devour talents are great for self heals. At 42/43 I was healing myself in the 50's/60's (crit in the 90's) per tick on every mob within range. Then you drop Creeping Death and your healing will keep you above 70% with 5 mobs on you (of equal or lower level). I compared this to a heavy paladin build in the same level and it wasn't as good for soloing multiple mobs. However, I had more health and good amount more armor in the paladin build.

I'm thinking at 50 I will be doing a tanking build with 44 paladin/ 22 reaver / 0 warlord (just for battlefield distraction)

Something like this:

44/22/0

EDIT:
I would also like to point out that maintaining aggro as a 33 reaver/24 paladin at level 43 is insanely easy. You have a ton of aoe threat generating abilities. Plague Bringer + Soul Sickness + Necrotic Wounds. Then there's weakening essence, concussion, creeping death (which with the right points heals you over time). The only times I've had problems is if the dumb mage decides to aoe pull instead of letting me do it.

I've also spoken to a few people about elite dungeons and things such as CC are important in those so abilities such as Plague Bringer + Soul Sickness + Necrotic Wounds can get you into trouble there. Which is one of the reason why I will likely switch to a heavy paladin build at 50.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2011 3:09pm by theiron50


Thanks for the great info. You got me interested in what you 50 paladin build would like. Have you made one yet?
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TankGirl - Warrior
MissDivine - Cleric
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#12 Mar 24 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
19 posts
@MJPsupreme

I have not used the build yet. I have 3 souls right now and 1st is Tanking with reaver/pally split, 2nd is DPS with Heavy Champion/paragon/riftblade, 3rd is Tanking with heavy paladin/reaver/warlord. I have not used the 3rd spec in dungeons yet and it concerns me that I will not hold aggro as well in aoe groups. However, If I can get all mobs to hit me I will block a ton and do damage back to the target while healing myself so that should help with the aggro problem. My character is currently level 44.

Edit:
I just went over and read the Melee Tank guide from a user here and he makes a good point in that going Paladin/Warlord/Void knight may be the best PvE tank spec. I can see how all the extra dodge/block/armor can make a big difference in a fight. If you haven't read it I suggest you take a look: http://rift.zam.com/forum.html?forum=227&mid=130093631320167708&page=1

You will lose abilities to heal yourself from the reaver build and extra aoe aggro generation of dot spells. The heals are no big deal because I think the damage reduction of the other abilities will more then make up for that. What you do really lose is the extra 9% damage mitigation of magic based spells that can be had in the reaver tree.

45 Paladin/21 Warlord/0 Void Knight

vs.

45 Paladin/21 Reaver/0 Void Knight or 0 Warlord

(There was 1 floating point in there for me. I dropped it into Light's Hammer for the stun/threat generating ability but it can just as easily go into something else)

I think the first might be good for a melee tank and the second for tanking enemies that do more magic damage. The Void Knight 5% magic absorption along with the 9% from crest mastery + crest of the abyss is nice.

We also have to keep in mind that endgame dungeons are very hard... I mean stupid hard, crowed control is crucial and keeping aggro on 1 to 2 mobs is going to be the key. So again that makes me think the paladin warlord build is better for this.

Edited, Mar 24th 2011 2:50pm by theiron50
#13 Mar 25 2011 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
@Theiron50

Thanks for the link. I give it a look :)
The thing I don't like about the Reaver is that I dont feel totally in control with Plauge bringer. I guess it's a matter of Pratice, but it still bugs me :P

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 8:13am by MJPsupreme
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Shard Tahkaat (EU)

TankGirl - Warrior
MissDivine - Cleric
Pinx - Rogue
#14 Mar 27 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
MJPsupreme wrote:
@Theiron50

Thanks for the link. I give it a look :)
The thing I don't like about the Reaver is that I dont feel totally in control with Plauge bringer. I guess it's a matter of Pratice, but it still bugs me :P

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 8:13am by MJPsupreme


How so? In my experience, I've been able to keep good aggro with a heavy reaver build. The heavy pally build kills you on aoe pulls... You basically have 2 aoe taunts and they are on basically the same timer.

There's a discussion going on about it over here:
http://rift.zam.com/forum.html?forum=227&mid=130093631320167708&page=1
#15 Mar 28 2011 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
theiron50 wrote:
MJPsupreme wrote:
@Theiron50

Thanks for the link. I give it a look :)
The thing I don't like about the Reaver is that I dont feel totally in control with Plauge bringer. I guess it's a matter of Pratice, but it still bugs me :P

Edited, Mar 25th 2011 8:13am by MJPsupreme


How so? In my experience, I've been able to keep good aggro with a heavy reaver build. The heavy pally build kills you on aoe pulls... You basically have 2 aoe taunts and they are on basically the same timer.

There's a discussion going on about it over here:
http://rift.zam.com/forum.html?forum=227&mid=130093631320167708&page=1


Sometimes I run dungeons in the dungoens' early level bracket, so the group more or less rely on CCs, and if the CC'ers don't recc their target I sometimes end up hitting them with Plauge bringer, and my dots break the CC. In the end I guess it's just a matter of practice, so I will still give it a chance.
I dont feel I have a big issue keeping aggro with the Paladin/Warlord/Void knight build, but It do requires ALOT more effort in manual targeting and taunting. If the group is heavy into AOE I'm in trouble tho.

Since Rift gives you the abillity to change roles on the fly, I might end up running trash mobs as reaver and then switch to paladin on bosses.
____________________________
Shard Tahkaat (EU)

TankGirl - Warrior
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Pinx - Rogue
#16 Mar 28 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
I am a warrior tank, my build is
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cEhk.VE0V0b0cc.E0Mhc0Vszr.q
I have been tanking, through expert IT and expert FC with this build and have had no problems, yes I do miss my reaver abilities, the self healing was nice, but i have a cleric and bard in my dungeon group so healing hasn't been a problem, the heals I receive from Tip the Balance, are plenty since my block rating it sitting at around 500, I went with the 6 points in champion for the Mighty Blow aoe skill, it does more dmg the the Vicious Cleave in the Reaver tree. And honestly I used the Soul Sickness/Plague Bringer only at the onset of the aoe pulls anyway, by the time the cooldown was up, the group of 3ish mobs were down to one so putting it up again was useless, the added healing i get from warlord (figurehead) is nice, I know many may disagree but I love this build. Let me know what you think.
#17 Mar 28 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
@MJPsupreme
&
@GunTank

All arguable points. It really is a matter of your group makeup. I was in an AOE happy LH group last night and the reaver build allowed me to maintain aggro on all mobs most of the time, there were a few not so good moments. I'm thinking I will keep two tanking builds up for myself. One for heavy CC/single target groups in later dungeons and a second for AOE groups.

Also, people seriously need to learn how to assist in this game... For the record.. It's the F key, or better yet /assist macro.

Another note: I am quickly noticing the good players from the bad. I gave another tank the opportunity to tank through LH a few times while I switched to DPS. He was bad, I mean real bad. Managed to get us killed several times. As soon as I switched to tank it was all good. I am by no means saying I'm amazing at this game but I feel I'm better then most people I have run into...
#18 Mar 28 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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3,702 posts
theiron50 wrote:
@MJPsupreme
&
@GunTank

All arguable points. It really is a matter of your group makeup. I was in an AOE happy LH group last night and the reaver build allowed me to maintain aggro on all mobs most of the time, there were a few not so good moments. I'm thinking I will keep two tanking builds up for myself. One for heavy CC/single target groups in later dungeons and a second for AOE groups.

Also, people seriously need to learn how to assist in this game... For the record.. It's the F key, or better yet /assist macro.

Another note: I am quickly noticing the good players from the bad. I gave another tank the opportunity to tank through LH a few times while I switched to DPS. He was bad, I mean real bad. Managed to get us killed several times. As soon as I switched to tank it was all good. I am by no means saying I'm amazing at this game but I feel I'm better then most people I have run into...


And so naturally you made an effort to help this other player be a better tank right?

I think you'll find this sort of thing happens when people switch to their off-spec role. It's difficult to learn how to do a thing without doing it a lot and tanking is no exception, it's really nothing like dps and the same rules don't apply.

I remember the other day I tanked LH normal, it was the first thing I'd ever tanked.... ever, despite keeping the gear on me and keeping the spec up to date in points and ranks, I'd never actually used it. For the first couple of pulls I sucked, hard, and then I figured out what I was doing wrong and we finished the instance with no other problems, but right at the beginning there I didn't have a clue beyond reading tooltips and trying to reason out what went where.

My point is, when you "let someone else tank" when they're normally a dps, you should expect it to be a bit rough while they figure out what to do, or you can help them by giving them advice, or you can come to a forum and proclaim about how you're a far superior player on your main spec than this guy is on his off-spec
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#19 Mar 28 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
theiron50 wrote:
@MJPsupreme
&
@GunTank

All arguable points. It really is a matter of your group makeup. I was in an AOE happy LH group last night and the reaver build allowed me to maintain aggro on all mobs most of the time, there were a few not so good moments. I'm thinking I will keep two tanking builds up for myself. One for heavy CC/single target groups in later dungeons and a second for AOE groups.

Also, people seriously need to learn how to assist in this game... For the record.. It's the F key, or better yet /assist macro.

Another note: I am quickly noticing the good players from the bad. I gave another tank the opportunity to tank through LH a few times while I switched to DPS. He was bad, I mean real bad. Managed to get us killed several times. As soon as I switched to tank it was all good. I am by no means saying I'm amazing at this game but I feel I'm better then most people I have run into...


And so naturally you made an effort to help this other player be a better tank right?

I think you'll find this sort of thing happens when people switch to their off-spec role. It's difficult to learn how to do a thing without doing it a lot and tanking is no exception, it's really nothing like dps and the same rules don't apply.

I remember the other day I tanked LH normal, it was the first thing I'd ever tanked.... ever, despite keeping the gear on me and keeping the spec up to date in points and ranks, I'd never actually used it. For the first couple of pulls I sucked, hard, and then I figured out what I was doing wrong and we finished the instance with no other problems, but right at the beginning there I didn't have a clue beyond reading tooltips and trying to reason out what went where.

My point is, when you "let someone else tank" when they're normally a dps, you should expect it to be a bit rough while they figure out what to do, or you can help them by giving them advice, or you can come to a forum and proclaim about how you're a far superior player on your main spec than this guy is on his off-spec


We as a group collectively tried. He was ok for most of the instance with the exception of AoE pulls which I think his spec would be hard to pull off in. Never once used the shield bash from Paladin tree, even though he has at least some points in there. His biggest problem was the final boss, had no idea how to tank him and when to move. The first run we did he tried tanking the final boss and we died twice. I switched to tank spec and we did it just fine with him on DPS, and again he was the only person in the group that died.

Second time around we let him tank again, practice makes perfect I say. Similar problems as first run lack of holding aggro with multiple mobs on him, managed to get healers killed at least once. We get to the final boss and I was ok with him trying again. He tried and we died. The same issues as the first run, didn't know how to position the mob nor movement of any kind. I switched tank spec again and we killed him with no deaths this time.

Third run I tanked and it was smooth and no one died. He also wasn't a very good DPS, definitely felt the difference with me tanking.

I'm just saying if it takes you a few times to get this down that's fine. But if you try tanking a boss fight 3 times and ***** up all three the exact same way, you are bad. Let's be honest the standard LH final boss is annoying but not that hard. Just keep him faced away from group and if he spawns a spire on you or near, you move him. Really not hard but every single time he pulled him towards the group and screwed us from the get go. We told him multiple times where to pull him to and he even saw me do it our first run.

Your scenario is perfect, you screwed a few pulls and then adjusted to make it not happen. This guy was a ***** ball for 3 full runs...

Edited, Mar 28th 2011 6:44pm by theiron50
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