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Cleric Tanking WeaponFollow

#1 Mar 24 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
Hey all!

So I'm coming to this game as a long-time WoW vet and I'm loving. Been playing for a couple days now and my Cleric has hit level 15, and I'm working on gathering all my souls. I'm Inquisitor DPS right now for leveling, but at 18-19 I'll be picking up an additional spec so I can start tanking, with intent to fill that role end-game. My question is, should I start looking for a nice one-handed weapon to set aside for that time to tank sword and board style, or is it viable for clerics to tank with a two-handed hammer? Thanks!
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#2 Mar 24 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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The Cleric tanking soul is the Justicar. The majority of the damage mitigation talents within the tree revolve around blocking which requires a shield. Justicars are essentially exactly like Prot Pallies were in WoW just after they introduced Holy Power but before they revamped Holy Shield (meaning you had to activate it manually rather than it activating automatically after using Shield of Righteous)

Clerics can also only use staves and maces (and daggers, but those are Rogue/ Mage weapons, so no tanking daggers...well no CLERIC tanking daggers anyway...moving on) which warriors can also use (the mace not the staff), however we as Clerics want to focus on the Maces that have caster stats on them (Wisdom, Intelligence, etc..) because Justicars get a zero point passive that turns spell crit, spell power and spell hit into the corresponding physical stat

TL;DR= Cleric tanks gear like casters, but use mace and board, with a focus on Endurance and Durability (WoW Defense equivalent found at later levels)
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#3 Mar 24 2011 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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Shields are a requirement to effectively tank as a Justicar; there is no getting around this.
#4 Mar 25 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Decent
Alright. I assumed as much but I've also read otherwise. Just wanted to confirm.
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"On Magic: The Gathering" wrote:
When you first start playing, it's all luck; you don't really know what to do or how to build a deck. Then, as you progress, you realize that a lot of losses can be avoided with good deckbuilding and strategy. Finally, when you begin playing with nothing but the highest caliber of players that all have amazing decks, you realize it's all luck.
#5 Mar 29 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
There is a camp out there that, for some reason, believes that you can effectively tank with a 2h weapon. This is complete and utter nonsense. Sure, you might have some decent damage mitigation skills and you can "get by" with a 2h weapon, but if you were using a 1h, a shield, and the Cleric's blocking skills/talents, there would IMMEDIATELY be a NOTICEABLE improvement. Why make it harder on your healers? Why try to make it into the DPS charts when your only purpose is to soak damage? Even without the extra skills/talents, shield = more armor = less damage taken. Period.

Edited, Mar 29th 2011 8:43am by haliphax
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#6 Mar 29 2011 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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To answer your question, Yes, if you would like to be a tank at lvl 18+ as a cleric pick up a shield and a one hand.

I would also say a good leveling weapon(usually 2h) is in order (when you are not tanking an instance) but if you want to tank as a cleric you need a shield. Too many justicar abilities favor a shield.
#7 Mar 30 2011 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Ive noticed that caster Maces tend to do less base dps than non-caster ones. Does this affect your dps (and thus your threat)? or is the difference in damage compensated by the effects of Faith in Action?
#8 Mar 30 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
13 posts
I've tanked with pretty "old" 1h weapons (since my main build is solo DPS with a 2h) and I've done just fine thus far at lv38. I can't vouch for any expert-level dungeons, but it seems that your abilities generate sufficient threat regardless of your base weapon damage (to a point, of course).
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#9 Mar 30 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The second post in this thread should give you quite a bit of insight http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?71781-Sword-amp-Shield-vs-2hdr. It's a rather heated discussion to read through. I'm levelling my cleric tank around 2h, I accidentally pulled a whole room about 10 mobs (I was half asleep). I kept aggro the entire time, stayed above half health and the healers mana bar didn't drop below 60%. Of course my build at the higher levels IS going to have all the shield abilities because quite a bit of the justicar talents are crappy, Doctrine of Valiance, and you get 1% armor increase for every point in Justicar from MoL. So my build would probably be 43/17/6. I had a question does anyone know if the Inquisitor Armor of Treachery is amplified by MoL? If it is only 6 points into inquisitor, which are actually beneficial,and you get a buff that's increasing your armor as much as half a shield while raising your dps.

Edit: This is the build I'd probably use Jus/Sha/Inq. Use shield/sword for boss fights and 2h when ~3% mitigation doesn't really matter.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 7:20pm by Tamurakenji
#10 Apr 01 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Any time you are running that build with a 2H weapon, there are a total of 14 points being used for absolutely nothing. I don't get it. Tanks soak damage; why are you hellbent on offering additional DPS instead?

14 Points:
1 in Precept of Refuge
3 in Stalwart Citadel
5 in Safe Haven
5 in Commitment

Also... why avoid Armor of Devotion? IMHO, it beats the crap out of Armor of Treachery. I suppose it's crit vs. overall damage output, but again--you are the tank. You are not there to burn through mobs. The additional Endurance could only help for soaking more damage.

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 11:24am by haliphax

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 11:26am by haliphax
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#11 Apr 01 2011 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
Yeah that spec doesn't look the greatest in retrospec, I agree Devotion would be better than treachery. Anyway the spec I'm thinking about now is Jus/Sha/Cab. 44 points in Justicar is worth Resplendent Embrace. As to why the armor talents I'd probably be using shield for boss fights, and the other Justicar talent points aren't very appealing alternatives. I want to be a tank that uses a shield, but without spellpower on them it doesn't justify the loss in parry, potential dps, and healing. My thinking is just that our tanking ability isn't hampered very much by using a 2h over a shield so why can't we be like the other tank classes and also be on the dps charts? Warrior with shield vs Cleric with shield are probably equal in tanking ability, but the warrior would blow the cleric out of the water in dps. I never said 2h is better for a tank, it's not, but for going through dungeons on non boss fights it seems more beneficial to the group to be using 2h if you can still stay alive just fine with it.

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 10:54pm by Tamurakenji
#12 Apr 11 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Ok. So first post on this board. Leveled a cleric as a tank/healer in dungeons and dps outside. Currently I'm level 50 and tanking t2 dungeons. As far as the trash mobs being able to be cleared with a 2 hander tank, that stopped with expert dungeons. There is no room to be missing out on the damage mitigation from a shield when you are getting pummeled by 5 mobs hitting for 700-1k per swing. Currently rolling sham/just/puri with a 33/33/0 setup, 115 toughness 9500 armor and 8200 health. This give me a charge from shaman which is nice when all your taunt cds are burned and something just agroed into the group, as well as a wisdom buff which helps my spellpower. This stacks with other wisdom buffs from both clerics and bards. So instead of say 52 from a bard song or 40 from a healing cleric I'm getting 80 - 92. Nice bump to my damage and mitigation. I also gain maelstrom. An additional air attack that hits 7 enemies helping maintain aggro in larger aoe pulls. not to mention some decent mana returns from crits. If your healer has decent gear I.e. dungeon blues or better survivability should be a simple matter of maintaining aggro and shouldn't require going deep justicar. So what I'm getting at is sword(mace in this case) and board tanking is the only viable end game setup for a cleric. Your welcome to attempt to 2 hander tank if you'd like.... and be sure to let me know how it goes. Cause I always like hearing how many wipes it takes to convince someone its a bad idea.
#13 Apr 12 2011 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
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So for those who read Tamurakenji's posted thread about 2h tanking, there is one huge flaw with the concept. It's true that with a 2hander you get a parry stat that is sufficient to approach mitigation with a shield, but the problem is that parry is capped at 20%. It's also incredibly easy to reach this cap even with a 1 handed weapon, which is why justicars have tanking problems because their primary means of mitigation is parry and they have lower block than warriors.
#14 Apr 12 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
1 hander tanking clerics have an ability that increses block by up to 15%, my cleric has a 12% innate block plus the ability that increses block for 8 seconds. I don't seem to have an issue blocking although I do tend to parry more often than block.
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