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51 pt sin, let us theorycraft.Follow

#1 Apr 07 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not 50 yet so I need some help on this.

Here is the link to Serpent Strike.

A venomous attack that deals weapon plus 210 to 215 Water damage. An additional 100% damage bonus from Attack Power is applied to this attack. Usable after dealing a Critical Hit. This ability is not affected by global cooldown. Awards 1 Combo Point.

The build I have in question is this. Fancy Shmancy 51 point build! Do keep in mind that this is strictly theorycrafted on my end at the moment, I need your help in letting me test this.

So given how the ability is worded, "Usable after dealing a Critical Hit." it should be based upon anything you do that gives a critical hit, this includes your yellow attacks and your auto attacks, I'm not entirely sure if poisons can crit, if they do the more then merrier.

Now after talking with someone in my guild that had just dinged 50 he was hitting for about 500 a strike non crit and 1000 damage for criticals.

By using this build I've proposed it gives the obvious 51 points in sin, but 5 points in ranger for 5% crit, and the other points in NB for 15% more damage on all your combo generators, SS included and 9% more damage on your non physical attacks. Considering that SS is water damage, this will affect your poisons and your SS.

So we're given a 15% and 9% modifier, how they're applied I can't say if its a flat increase on the base damage or applied after the application of attack power. Until we're able to see the equations on it, I'm sol on this.

This also gives you a 10% flat increase in critical strike for all abilities, and a 6% increase to backstab as well. Considering that if you were to be dpsing you'd be behind the enemy almost always so 16% more crit on BS on top of your damage as well.

Given all of this information the whole theory to trying this build is to basically bind SS to all of your attacks so that you don't miss an opportunity to use the attack. Then just run the normal sin rotation.

Any of you with a parser and at level 50 willing to try this build, please post some results for me cause I'm very very interested in how this turns out. If you do, please do it on the t1/t2/t3 dummies for at very least 5 minutes.

The way to set the macro up is like this.

#show ability_name 
/suppressmacrofailures 
/cast Serpent Strike 
/cast ability_name


This assumes that if you're mashing that button if the reactive ability is able to be used it will use it, if not it will default go to the next ability down and use that. The suppress part is so you dont see the error message.

*I wish I had a simulator*



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#2 Apr 07 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Savage gets a higher crit modifier (10 vs 6) than BS, and the damage difference I've found is not worth it. Granted you'll have it anyways with a 51 assassin so it's not like we can argue about the waste of a point. I just wish backstab had more advantages to it than a 50% AP damage boost. (like higher poison proc rate)

Serpent is the path to maximizing your "standing there attacking something that's not moving for a while" dps. You've also maximized crit rate given you can't abuse riftstalker with only 15 points to maintain the +15% crit/damage rate.

Given I run a 34 asn nearly 24/7 I can tell you with critted bleeds you'll be running around 200-400 dps from poison and bleeds alone. My crappy basic gear gets me a natural ~20% base crit rate.

In the end, though, this is basically a slightly lower damage assassinate every 10 seconds at best.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 4:54pm by SwiftAusterity
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#3 Apr 07 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Aw wishful thinking. I'm just trying to wrap my head around a build that will gives rogues something.

Like the crazy trispec crap dks used to dual wield in wow back when wrath first launched.

But this still does give me one question though. At a higher gear level, we're talking something past greenscale. When crit rates get to a pretty high amount, would a constant off the gcd ability push something like a 51 pt build past the rest?

This is why I wish someone had a simulator. I have all these crazy ideas and thoughts in my head of things I want to try but I still can't try them out yet.
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#4 Apr 07 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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It has a 10 second cooldown. It's not worth full-asn to me to get an assassinate every 10 seconds and my realistic crit rate on my 34/32/0 build is already above 40% for most attacks.

With critted bleeds I can actually expose, jagged strike, puncture and impale and switch targets and expect that one to die on its own during rifts with maybe one or two rift disturbances thrown in.

I killed a mage with nothing but bleeds and puncture the other day ;)
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#5 Apr 07 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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I ran a 51 asn build for a brief period, and found myself using it every single time the cd was up. Crit rate is not a problem at all. That being said, overall assassin dps I just don't think is as good as other specs. That being said, I'm very interested to see what your parse data is. If I remember I'll go ahead and parse my bladedancer build that I use as a melee dps in experts for comparison.
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#6 Apr 07 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmmm, 10 second ICD on SS is pretty retarded. Thats 6 a minute with 0 ping. Over 5 minutes averaging 500 damage a hit with no crits its only a 50 dps increase.

Y U NO REMOVE ICD TRION!?
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#7 Apr 07 2011 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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It holds back bladedancer dps too. I'm more annoyed at the all-in talent being held back but there you go ;)
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#8 Apr 07 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder when a restructure of certain souls is gonna happen. Not so much even a restructure of the talents, as a restructure of the roots themselves.

Change the way the roots are to make certain root talents more available and you'll see an increase in more all in type specs I'd bet.
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#9 Apr 07 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm kinda happy with asn and RS. You get the heavy tanking cooldowns in RS way late and you're not ever bogged down by non-dps except maybe between 5 and 10 points where all you can get is armor, damage reduction, endurance or +healing.

I wouldn't mind seeing permastealth moved down (but don't care much either way), and I'd love backstab and poisons have more synergy but it's not that bad atm. I'd like to see a poisoning rate raised on crits passive (4/8/12/16/20) instead of the more damage from poisons and I'd like to see backstab have a higher poison rate in general.

I'd also like to know what the **** they were on about for the rs 31.

EDIT: I may be more content with the current trees because in early closed beta they sucked badly.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 6:12pm by SwiftAusterity
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#10 Apr 07 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'd also like to know what the **** they were on about for the rs 31.


My guess is if someone pulls a mob a quick combo point switch helps for snap aggro if your taunt or something is down.
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#11 Apr 07 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I want it to be a passive that reiterates unspent combo points to the new target (even if prev target is dead) so it has synergy with the heal-on-kill thing.

Essentially you'd never ever waste combo points.
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#12 Apr 07 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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SwiftAusterity wrote:
Savage gets a higher crit modifier (10 vs 6) than BS, and the damage difference I've found is not worth it. Granted you'll have it anyways with a 51 assassin so it's not like we can argue about the waste of a point. I just wish backstab had more advantages to it than a 50% AP damage boost. (like higher poison proc rate)

Serpent is the path to maximizing your "standing there attacking something that's not moving for a while" dps. You've also maximized crit rate given you can't abuse riftstalker with only 15 points to maintain the +15% crit/damage rate.

Given I run a 34 asn nearly 24/7 I can tell you with critted bleeds you'll be running around 200-400 dps from poison and bleeds alone. My crappy basic gear gets me a natural ~20% base crit rate.

In the end, though, this is basically a slightly lower damage assassinate every 10 seconds at best.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 4:54pm by SwiftAusterity


Do these planar shift abilities trigger a GCD?
#13 Apr 08 2011 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Almost everything does with the exception of poison malice I think. (between asn and rs)

2 of them do damage. 2 of them add 15% damage (in stalker stance), the rest just add the crit. The buffs last 10 seconds.
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