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Drowning in AbilitiesFollow

#1 Apr 21 2011 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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It may be down to my advancing years but There do seem to be a lot of abilities jumping onto my action bars or abilities book which seem to be very similar.

I've managed so far (24) as Ranger/Marksman/Bard making the choices as I level and I still seem to do the same few abilities each fight changing according to circumstances, opponents, adds etc. I'm probably doing it all wrong but I manage to stay alive quite often and enjoy the game.

However last night I bought another role since my early time playing Warhammer (tabletop, not MMO) had me hankering after BladeDancer. So I duly set up the role as BladeDancer/Riftstalker/Mad Arsonist and dumped most of my points into Bladedancer.

I had abilities dropping all over the place and unlike the ranger, where they arrived one or two at a time, I have no feel whatsoever for how to play the character or what works better. And many are confusingly conditional - they only work for 10s after another ability - or only on Tuesdays if it isn't raining. I sat for some time reading all the text and came away no less confused. I went and mistreated a few L18 mobs to try stuff and was no less confused.

Personally I think I'm going to have to start a new rogue character and level through the acquisition of these skills before I'll have a clue as to how to use them. There was a much better feel for a new skill when you just got it - by itself - and tried it out, than when 30 arrive at once with no feel for seniority.

I can see why there is so much discussion of rotations or priority chains but its all a bit theorycrafty for me. As someone else said, getting back to the WoW TBC macro-mashing isn't a recipe for enjoying the game.
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#2 Apr 21 2011 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cobra101 wrote:
And many are confusingly conditional - they only work for 10s after another ability - or only on Tuesdays if it isn't raining.


I put the reactive ability toolbar nice and big right over my head. That way instead of having those things on my regular toolbar, I just forget about them and click them as they pop up. Obviously one hopes to understand one's abilities better than that, but it's a starting point for learning where and when and why they fit into the flow of things.

The biggest problem for me with all the abilities you end up with is keybinds, since I hate clicking in general. But I've managed to rid myself of my WoW insistence on having every ability within reach even if I use it rarely, and learned to throw the redundant abilities from multiple souls right off my toolbar. How many 2 second casts serving similar functions do I really need?
#3 Apr 21 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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My general theory for rogue is to concentrate on the one universal points builder with the most talent support and one main finisher with the most damage. Then the most useful aoe abilities and the "utility" finishers.

BD gets a *ton* of stuff. BD+RS is pretty bad too with, what, 6 different finishers all which do some sort of short term buff. Marks/Ranger is also fairly bad with so many aoes and different finishers. (all which seem to have 10 second cooldowns)

It's much better to actually level up with this stuff so you mete out proper rotations over a longer period of time. Nabbing a BD/ or marks/ranger at like 30-50 with almost no prior experience is really jarring.
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#4 Apr 21 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've had some issues with over abundance of skills on my warrior when I changed souls or added new roles as well. The first thing I do with a new role is clear my action bars and then throw every ability of each soul on there. Next start cutting any abilities that have redundancies or that are inferior to others. Next I will separate out the conditional abilities, these are not only the ones you need to learn when to use they are usually your most powerful skills. Now with all my new shiney abilities in tow I head out to rifts 5-10 levels lower than me and start playing around trying to get a feel for everything.

The best thing I can say is that yo will have more skills than you need so make sure to use only the ones that fit the role you designed. Do not be afraid to pass on a skill that is extremely situational and only moderately beneficial.
#5 Apr 21 2011 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Personally I think I'm going to have to start a new rogue character and level through the acquisition of these skills before I'll have a clue as to how to use them. There was a much better feel for a new skill when you just got it - by itself - and tried it out, than when 30 arrive at once with no feel for seniority.

I can see why there is so much discussion of rotations or priority chains but its all a bit theorycrafty for me. As someone else said, getting back to the WoW TBC macro-mashing isn't a recipe for enjoying the game.


Don't worry its not a personal problem or sign of aging... it can be difficult to completely change all 3 of your specs, not learning them from the ground up and what the best rotation is for your playstyle. I find that if I add souls I usually end up keeping some of the familiar and just add maybe one new soul, learn that then go on to experience another. But yeah, it can be overwhelming (which is a good thing) and you might want to even focus on an alt learning from the ground up if that appeals to you. The first time I switched from a ranged DPSers to a tank at only lvl 18 I was lost and would have been a horrible tank had I not gone out and practiced on some rifts and quests with the new build. Its one of the things I love about this game actually! :-)

Later.
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#6 Apr 21 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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the melee rogue trees are notorious for redundant skills/abilities. i went Sin/BD/Sab for dps and pvp. not only are are some abilities uber situational but a lot are identical. you read the whole paragraph of a tooltip 3 times over only to realize you already use that ability with a different name.

i have duplicate combo builders, finishers, and utilities. the kicker for me is what i use regularly and what i can enhance through talents. i took most talents in Sin yet i rotate Keen/Quick which is talented through the BD tree where the Sin tree has very specific enhancements for abilities which i never or hardly use. ****, Savage Strike alone has 2 talents by itself, SS is not even on my bars anymore.

it does get confusing and convoluted sometimes. you also need to understand that the talents and abilities you use as solo will not be the same you use come lvl 50 dungeons/raids. it's hard to get a feel for party buffs and dps builders when you are soloing for the quick kills.
#7 Apr 21 2011 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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You may not enjoy "macro-mashing" but it is entirely up to you how much you put into a macro. Instead of looking at it as an I-Win button, look at it as freeing up some freakin keybindings, because yes there are a lot of abilites in this game.

Almost all reactives you can macro into your primary CP/AP builder abilty. Or at the very least macro all the reactives to their own button.

When i try a new spec it takes me all evening just writing up all my macros (and deciding which ones to delete from the VERY limited amount of macros you can make. Give us infinite macro slots plz!).

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 7:31am by KTurner
#8 Apr 25 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
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perhaps making macro's to add a reactive ability before your usual abilities will help.
instead of
cast Keen Strike
try
suppressmacrofailures
cast Quick strike
cast Keen strike
so that you have the one button for your keen strike and then the same button for your quick strike.
#9 Apr 25 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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I had the same issue when I bought my first role on my mage, when I first dumped all my skill points I was hella confused with all my new skills...I had to play around and read for a couple hours before I got how to play my new role.
The system is a little flawed (though not impossible to learn) and I can understand how some players can have an issue with it....Trion could have probably thought of a better way to go around this :|
Maybe they will improve it one day...
#10 Apr 27 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I totally agree - too many, too often, takes too much time to study up on all of it. There are more abilities than I can ever use.
#11 Apr 28 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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How many action bars do you normally have?

Personally, I have 4 action bars (3+ initial) for Role based stuff, and one side action bar where I keep universal stuff (Ascended powers, Soul Recall, Gatherer Tracking Abilities, Potions/Drinks, and Role changing). My general method for the 4 combat bars is:

Row 1: CP generators for 1-5, AoEs or CC depending on Role for 6-=, and any reactives are in between the two groups. This row keeps 1-= keybound, but I normally click reactives and anything past 5

There are 2 exceptions to this:

1: My ranger/mm build I have a second set of Row 1 keys (the ones you use the arrows to access) where I have AoEs and CPs swapped, for the sake of dungeons and stuff where I'm using AoE abilities a lot more than single target stuff.

2: Anytime I have points in bard where I intend to use the role for support, I keep my motifs as 1-5 just for the sake of those being the keys I access fastest, which makes keeping up motifs a loooot easier.

Row 2: Finishers above CP, CC/Movement depending on role above the rest of Row 1 (I keep my phase shifts here when I have points in RS, otherwise this is for CC stuff). This row is set to Alt+#, because I'm most comfortable using alt+# relative to ctrl/shift.

Row 3: Right side is for Quick use combat buffs (Planar Refuge, Poison Malice, etc), and the left side is for long duration buffs like Poisons or Fanfares/Anthems. This is set to ctrl+, but I normally just click them as needed.

Row 4: My mount, role specific tracking, and quest items. (set to shift+, ie my mount is shift+1, and I don't really use shift+ anything else, lol)

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 11:22am by Jinte
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#12 Apr 28 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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Two bars for combat at the bottom, one for buffs/soul recall/ascended powers on the right. Anything more is clutter and yuk.

Keybinds are 1-5, Alt+1-5, A, Alt+A, D, Alt+D, R, Alt+R, T, Alt+T. That's 18 keybinds tucked away neatly on two bars and within easy reach of my left hand. (Chat reply is rebound to Ctrl+R). No calling I've played requires more than 18 keybinds if I macro reactives and cooldowns appropriately.

No clicking on action bars, either. Angels made from dead babies slap pandas and make them weep every time a player clicks on an action bar.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 4:44pm by Aurelius
#13 Apr 29 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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While I've noticed this, I've never really minded because I always just picked whichever would be better. Usually one gets bonus damage/healing/etc based on your spec, mana costs, etc.

I really don't have overwhelming action bars and try to limit my abilities to the essentials and "oh shi-" buttons.
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