Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Thought on Rift against WoWFollow

#1 May 18 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
4 posts
I've played the game since launch. It has many good things a a few problems that will get worse down the road I believe.

Strengths

1-Cast system is second to none. Not to bash WoW but Rift kills it here. WoW forces nearly all talent points into one tree. Very sad. Rift you can put talents anywhere you wish in 3 different trees at once. Did they steal talents from WoW? You think:P

2-Rifts are a great idea. They can pop up right in your way. They can spawn invaders that can even take over quest Hubs. Again WoW has nothing. What you see is what you get nothing changes.

3-Zone wide invasions. These are plain fun. Great way of having somthing different just pop up at any given time. WoW? again nothing. You go through a zone and what you see is what you get it never chances.

On the above 3 Rift just kills WoW. They are what will make or break Rift. Why? There is nothing Rift does differently in the other parts of the game that are any different than WoW.

Troubles I see coming.

1-Rifts. 90% of the time now on my server no one stops to close a Rift. In the beginning you see people ride for miles to close one. Now? You'll be lucky to get anyone to close one. Rift needs to bring back that. Rift is the name of the game. Rifts should give rewards so you'd want to close one not ride by. Maybe 1000 bonus EXP for being there and closing let's say most of the minor Rift. Maybe a major would give 4000 bonus. Maybe a very rare chance of a Armor drop or a weapon, trinket ring. Something good but very rare. Think of the people who even today in WoW do Baron run just to get the mount.

2-Invasions. From what I see now even thou Rift has tried to make what you need to do easier people still will ride away from a Stone even thou there are 4 invasions 3 steps away. Don't see what they can do to change stupid. Maybe have them spawn in parts like epic invasions. First up defend a stone then part 2 pops up and you close 10 rifts.

3-Invasions spawns. Here is real trouble. I level from 1 to 20 and never saw 1 invasion. Was I unlucky? Maybe. But when they are spawned because of zone pops and there are none in the zone you never see one. If a GM forces a invasion it fails because there aren't enough in the zone to do it. People there just log out until it's over because they know it will fail. Yes Stillmoor works. Force a invasion and people come running. But in Freemarch? Why would a level 20+ come back to help? Not worth the time.

4-talent trees. I can see it coming and it will. Nerfing PvE because of PvP. It killed WoW for me. And some classes in this game are so over the top in PvP Rift has to nerf them. This hurts in PvE because of PvP. Which is bad.

Rift does have a future. What it does better than WoW are why I left WoW. Because Rift needs to get a handle on a few things I've listed or slowly it will die when it becomes WoW without the 3 things it does best.

Ok I'll turn off the wall of text now:)
#2 May 18 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
12,049 posts
This is a new and unique topic Smiley: rolleyes

But to be sporting:
Quote:
1-Rifts.
There seems to be a pretty active amount of people who will close rifts on my server, actually. The bigger issue for me is that the zones seem too unpopulated. I blame this on the huge surge of new servers immediately post-launch to accommodate all the newbies, and then the inevitable loss of some of those players leaving previously packed servers at half their capacity. I'm actually hoping for some shard condensing.

Quote:
2-Invasions.
This is all about players, not the game. I do believe that a bonus for fighting at a wardstone would be nice. However, even solo players have the ability to fend off an invasion or two. Pop your planar powers to call reinforcements or go into demigod mode for 30 seconds. In a Scarwood invasion a few weeks back, my level 37 rogue and a level 32 mage held Perspice for thirty minutes through waves of multiple invasions. Some of the most fun I've had in the game (and I made a few thousand planarite!).

Quote:
3-Invasions spawns.
On my server there are giant groups that roam the world for invasions (at least in the level 40+ areas). Unfortunately sometimes you just get bad luck. Also, not important, but GM's will not usually "force" invasions. The only forced ones are for world events; the rest rely on algorithms.

Quote:
4-talent trees. I can see it coming and it will. Nerfing PvE because of PvP.
Curious, how do you "see" it coming? Trion has already flat-out said that some specs and trees will not work as well in PvE as they will in PvP (and vice-versa). Even the changes that have been made so far haven't really felt like nerfs to me; most of them seem like buffs because some classes were far behind others in both aspects. I'm honestly not too worried about this.

Edited, May 18th 2011 12:51pm by LockeColeMA
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#3 May 20 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
I see the problem with some zone wide events but that is lower lvl ones and they got nerfed some. I was in stone field and there was 3 people in there but still had elites running all around with hp up in 100k+ lvl range nothing we could do but try to get around them. the same thing happened in droughtlands I was lvl 36ish with elite mobs 600k+ hp. Once again not many people in zone. I complained to guildies the next day tron nerfs them down some.
#4 May 20 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
*
155 posts
I played WoW for 3 1/2 years and Eve Online for 2 yrs before that. IMHO Rift is far better than WoW and I won't be going back just because of minor issues with Rift. I left WoW because it became a game for kids. I want to play a game focused more for adults (why I loved Eve so much, PvP is REAL in that game), and I do hope Trion doesn't just bow to the "subs" and homogenize all callings like Blizzard did. There is a reason certain Callings rape others and vise versa, they are your arch nemesis kinda thing, and I love that kind of game play.

Is there issues Trion needs to address, ofc there are, but they do Hotfix known problems pretty much as fast as they are capable of. ****, the thread on the Official Forums for known Patch 1.2 issues is 48 pages long AND the devs are actually responding.
____________________________
My Roles:

DPS: (Inq) 51 (Sent) 10 (Ward) 5
Raid Healer: (Puri) 32 (Sent) 34 (Ward) 0
MT Healer: (Puri) 51 (Sent) 15 (Ward) 0
Tank: (Just) 47 (Sham) 7 (Inq) 12
Inquisicar: (Inq) 51 (Justi) 14 (Sent) 1
#5 May 22 2011 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
I really don't understand the whole comparion to WoW. The UI is similar, but that's because it works. It's far more fluid to use what everyone else is using than try to be a unique snowflake and change the UI for the sake of being different. Didn't work for FFXIV, and it wouldn't have worked for Rift, either.

Frankly, I see far more similarities to Baldur's Gate games than WoW - everything from the artwork and shadows to the battle pace to the items and armor. It's clearly influenced by the Baldur's Gate\Dragon Age IP more than anything at all in WoW. It's like Blizzard and BioWare had an illegitimate child and it was Trion.

I really think that we should be comparing Rift to games that are in its league. Its graphics, gameplay, and accessibility to even new players with the open world Rift events and fluid questing system put it in a different category than WoW. At some point, these developers who are taking advantage of the times and programming games that look great and play great are going to start pulling ahead. What Trion delivered with their first entry into the world off MMORPG is kind of what I was expecting from Blizzard's Cataclysm. Instead, they gave us more class imbalance, not a very enthusiastic overhaul of the dated graphics, and another handful of dungeons that are either flat-out reused, or so similar I swore I never left Pit of Saron.

I have high hopes for Rift, and with the way they seem to be plogging along, we could very well see them take the crown in a couple years. If history has taught us anything, it's that empires often fall when they become complacent or arrogant, two traits that we are starting to see come out of Blizzard.
#6 May 22 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Default
**
526 posts
I agree with making the Rift more interesting to high levels. The biggest issue right now and I predicted it the day the game launched. There was literally nothing that justified 99 servers. It was a very stupid mistake at the time.

If they merge, then WoW fanbois will use it to cry from one side of the internet to the other that Rift is dying when those hypocrites refuse to look at their own server status.

Only way to avoid transfers destroying low pop servers is simply to make the LFD tool cross server. It would be fine single server, but some idiot made 99 servers.
#7 May 22 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
Ghost in the Machine
Avatar
******
36,439 posts
Torrence wrote:
not a very enthusiastic overhaul of the dated graphics


But the water, man! The water! For just half your FPS, you too can have water that looks liquid!
____________________________
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
#8 May 22 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,576 posts
Torrence wrote:
I have high hopes for Rift, and with the way they seem to be plogging along, we could very well see them take the crown in a couple years. If history has taught us anything, it's that empires often fall when they become complacent or arrogant, two traits that we are starting to see come out of Blizzard.


Bored I think would be a more fair assessment. After 6 years, whether there are folks left over from the original team or they're all just people added on over time expanding on someone else' work, I just don't see a lot of passion about much of anything from the devs anymore. I imagine they're tired of answering the same tired, old questions and responding to the same tired, old whines. 6+ years as the dominant MMO market that has seen titles come and go is a pretty good run. I don't necessarily blame Blizzard for the way the game has gone in the last couple of years. WoW was the first MMO I left because it was just stale for me. FFXI, LoTRO, and FFXIV were all games I stopped playing because there was an arm's length list of things I had grown to strongly dislike about the games and the things I did enjoy were to be found in such minor bits and pieces that I couldn't justify sticking around.

Now I've got two 50s in Rift and a rogue that just turned 47 tonight. I'm not sure what to do with my new rogue. I could continue what I have been doing...grind warfronts for the lion's share of my xp and head out to quest just to keep the things in my journal from turning grey. Or, now that I've got all of my prestige rank 1 and 2 gear in the bank, I could just drive to 50 and start the prestige grind (again) with some PvE here and there if I can find a group that doesn't suck. At the end of the day, however, I just feel that there's a lot more to do in Rift at level 50 than there was in WoW at 80 (I stopped playing towards the end of WotLK).
#9 May 23 2011 at 3:28 AM Rating: Decent
*
155 posts
Also remember, Trion is working on bringing out Zone wide PvP events in the form of an Invasion. That adds a little more "interesting" type of thing to do at or near max level.
____________________________
My Roles:

DPS: (Inq) 51 (Sent) 10 (Ward) 5
Raid Healer: (Puri) 32 (Sent) 34 (Ward) 0
MT Healer: (Puri) 51 (Sent) 15 (Ward) 0
Tank: (Just) 47 (Sham) 7 (Inq) 12
Inquisicar: (Inq) 51 (Justi) 14 (Sent) 1
#10 May 23 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
****
4,074 posts
Aurelius wrote:
I just feel that there's a lot more to do in Rift at level 50 than there was in WoW at 80 (I stopped playing towards the end of WotLK).


Speaking for gameplay in general, not just level cap activities (Hey Aurelius, I have a level 32 character now!), the important difference I find with Rift that I was no longer experiencing with WoW is that I enjoy the gameplay itself, and the rewards are secondary. I love the chaos of a big zone wide invasion. Especially now that I'm in cross-faction areas and heal someone who was flagged and... oops. ;). I see no reason these sorts of dynamic events shouldn't still be fun at 50, provided they make an effort to change them up so they don't get stale.

Rift is working for me because the part that's fun is the part where I'm actually running around and casting spells and achieving objectives. As soon as that stuff becomes secondary to the part where I'm counting up the loot at the end, it begins to feel pointless to me.

But WoW was that way for me too, when it was new. It's not enough for the end to be fun, or the means to be fun; the trick is getting the means to stay fun. I don't know that Rift will achieve this, but since I'm having fun now, I'm willing to stick around and see how it goes. I'll be curious to see how they try to accomplish it, though; a lot of the websites for new MMO's or those in development like to talk about how they're different, because their endgame is not go-grind-for-access-to-the-next-grind, but I have yet to see a model that isn't exactly that.



Edited, May 23rd 2011 9:35am by teacake
#11 May 23 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
I love the chaos of a big zone wide invasion. Especially now that I'm in cross-faction areas and heal someone who was flagged and... oops. ;). I see no reason these sorts of dynamic events shouldn't still be fun at 50, provided they make an effort to change them up so they don't get stale.


This is kind of where I am at with it all. We've all seen these opening cinematics of battle and gameplay, with epic leading characters fighting magnificent monsters, but rarely do they carry over into the actual game. One of the first things I noticed was that the rifts actually look like the cinematic. Some of them are downright scary, but every single one really looks like a real tear between worlds. Mobs don't just spawn, they spawn enveloped in flames or acid or whatever. They really scored a win in that regard - making the game actually live up to its opening trailers.

I couldn't put it down this weekend. The last game that I felt that way about was FFXI 8 or so years ago. Whats so funny is that I waited so long to try it because of all the "It's just like WoW comments". Silly me - listening to people on forums. It's nothing at all like WoW, and after playing this game I don't see how I can go back to that archaic game without being disappointed in, well, everything.

#12 May 23 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
12,049 posts
Two things really draw me into Rift that WoW didn't have.

1. Exploration. I feel SUCH a thrill when it comes to exploring Telara. Trion did a fantastic job with this, including achievements, artifacts, ancient wardstones, and rare spawns in all the corners of each zone. One of the best things as well was making many walls climbable. Long before I started chasing achievements I ran up a hill in Stonefield. Then I got to thinking, "Huh, I wonder how high I can climb?" I was blown away - I reached this entire areas above Granite Falls, saw a windmill at the top of the world, had to use my racials and abilities to get across waterfalls... and even found a circle of squirrels dancing around a pole (then found out it was an achievement area, ha!). When I started searching for Ancient Cairns I felt the same way - when I discovered artifact locations in the hills above Silverwood or on Shoreward Island, I made it a point to explore them. The only problem I really have is the "invisible wall syndrome," where if Trion doesn't want you there, you CAN'T go there. While climbing north of Granite Falls is possible, you can't climb to the Northwest or the Northeast; you run into invisible roadblocks halfway up the hills.

2. Dynamic content. In a way I feel this is like world PvP, which was always some of the most fun in WoW for me. It changed the world and gives you ways to lose yourself for an hour or two. Invasions are awesome and rewarding, although sometimes I feel some bosses or invasions are simply too hard (getting an elite rift spawn with 500k health in Stonefield? Ugh...). But I'll often stop whatever I'm doing to help out with invasions... even in lowbie zones. It's even more fun then, because you actually feel like a hero, able to stem the tide while everyone 10-20 levels below you desperately attempts to support you!

Basic PvE I find a bit lackluster, and I dislike the end-game grind of dungeon-diving and gearing up in tiers. But I take so long to get my achievements, by the time I'm 50 I'll likely just be halfway through Droughtlands, so I have a lot left to look forward to Smiley: smile
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#13 May 23 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,330 posts
LockeColeMA wrote:
Two things really draw me into Rift that WoW didn't have.

1. Exploration. I feel SUCH a thrill when it comes to exploring Telara. Trion did a fantastic job with this, including achievements, artifacts, ancient wardstones, and rare spawns in all the corners of each zone. One of the best things as well was making many walls climbable. Long before I started chasing achievements I ran up a hill in Stonefield. Then I got to thinking, "Huh, I wonder how high I can climb?" I was blown away - I reached this entire areas above Granite Falls, saw a windmill at the top of the world, had to use my racials and abilities to get across waterfalls... and even found a circle of squirrels dancing around a pole (then found out it was an achievement area, ha!). When I started searching for Ancient Cairns I felt the same way - when I discovered artifact locations in the hills above Silverwood or on Shoreward Island, I made it a point to explore them. The only problem I really have is the "invisible wall syndrome," where if Trion doesn't want you there, you CAN'T go there. While climbing north of Granite Falls is possible, you can't climb to the Northwest or the Northeast; you run into invisible roadblocks halfway up the hills. [...]

Those roadblocks are also there because if you step too far into those restricted areas, you will be ported to the graveyard. I've found a couple of holes in those walls accidentally and *POOF* -- appeared in the graveyard because I entered a locked area.

#14 May 23 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
Kinda what Locke said.

Some days I log on and just explore. I hunt for rare mobs, artifacts, achievements and just to see the sites. And for me, questing is just something to fill the time until I run across the next rift or the next invasion happens.
#15 May 25 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
I imagine they're tired of answering the same tired, old questions and responding to the same tired, old whines. 6+ years as the dominant MMO market that has seen titles come and go is a pretty good run


Well a lot of it is self-inflicted though. I mean, every expansion they have done major overhauls on how the classes play, and then throughout the life of the xpac they have the endless cycle of buff\nerf\halfbuff\quarternerf. If they spent more time on the content and stopped ******* with the classes, they would probably have an easier time of it. It baffles me how they constantly create more work for themselves with this silliness.

That's what did it in for me, anyway. WoW isn't a game that you can pick up after some time off and dive right back in. You have to redo your talent tree, you have to redo your macros, you have to examine every spell in your spellbook to see what has changed.... Because it's guaranteed to have changed. I'd had enough of it. They clearly make changes just for the sake of making changes and not because something is radically broken. I hope that Trion isn't going to follow suit, because as much as I am enjoying the game I don't think I can deal with another few years of the rollercoaster ride of class redesign every patch.
#16 May 25 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
Rift is indeed a good game, it just "lacks" something to compensate the high levels to close down the rifts in the beginner zones with better rewards. As opposed to just getting Planarite.
#17 May 25 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,576 posts
Torrence wrote:
Quote:
I imagine they're tired of answering the same tired, old questions and responding to the same tired, old whines. 6+ years as the dominant MMO market that has seen titles come and go is a pretty good run


Well a lot of it is self-inflicted though. I mean, every expansion they have done major overhauls on how the classes play, and then throughout the life of the xpac they have the endless cycle of buff\nerf\halfbuff\quarternerf. If they spent more time on the content and stopped @#%^ing with the classes, they would probably have an easier time of it. It baffles me how they constantly create more work for themselves with this silliness.

That's what did it in for me, anyway. WoW isn't a game that you can pick up after some time off and dive right back in. You have to redo your talent tree, you have to redo your macros, you have to examine every spell in your spellbook to see what has changed.... Because it's guaranteed to have changed. I'd had enough of it. They clearly make changes just for the sake of making changes and not because something is radically broken. I hope that Trion isn't going to follow suit, because as much as I am enjoying the game I don't think I can deal with another few years of the rollercoaster ride of class redesign every patch.


They make changes every expansion to try and keep the game fresh. And then they spend the duration of a given expansion cycle tweaking and adjusting based on how players respond.

I just read an article recently involving an interview with Berenger Fish (lead dungeon and raid designer for Rift) where he was talking about what they had learned after the first month of service with Greenscale's Blight. He pointed out how the first waves of players to reach the cap after launch and start raiding grossly exceeded the performance of beta testers which resulted in some pretty substantial buffs to the encounters in GB. (I lol'd a bit when I read that...turns out most of the alpha testers were baddies, but I digress).

A developer can plan performance targets for this calling and that soul and all that, but at the end of the day they have to wait and see what happens live before they can get a true feel for how things are going to work out. It doesn't matter if the mechanics say a Paragon can do 1500dps in <x> gear at level 50 if the playstyle of the soul is so convoluted that nobody can figure out how to break 700. And if they try and shoot for a reasonable estimate based on a certain build and a certain playstyle and an oddball build becomes common that blows that estimate out of the water, they're in the same position.

It was the same with WoW. They could make all the convoluted spreadsheets they wanted to try and get a feel for how a particular class/spec should perform under certain circumstances, but it was all hypothesis until things went live.

I only point this out because Rift is likely to be exactly the same. Every other major patch and/or balancing pass is going to involve changes to souls and then the devs are going to observe and change a bit more. It's the nature of MMO gameplay when they're trying to both preserve raid viability for all callings and try to keep all callings competitive in PvP.
#18 May 27 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
Aurelius wrote:

It was the same with WoW. They could make all the convoluted spreadsheets they wanted to try and get a feel for how a particular class/spec should perform under certain circumstances, but it was all hypothesis until things went live.

I only point this out because Rift is likely to be exactly the same. Every other major patch and/or balancing pass is going to involve changes to souls and then the devs are going to observe and change a bit more. It's the nature of MMO gameplay when they're trying to both preserve raid viability for all callings and try to keep all callings competitive in PvP.


They don't need to do a gross overhaul of basics every expansion\patch though to achieve interest in the game. I'll take FFXI as an example that I know you are familiar with - there have been changes and additions over the years, but you could return to it after a 3 year break and be able to pick up the game again and have an understanding of how your abilities worked. Low level things never had their fundamentals changes. Cure always cost the same, and healed for the same. It's not like that with WoW, and despite their sub numbers I would argue that FFXI has the better overall class design.

Granted, they aren't really trying to balance things with PvP in mind, but one has to question the wisdom of constantly redesigning classes from the ground up and then tweaking over a few month period to handle the content as opposed to tweaking your original design over the course of a few years and designing the content around it.

That's their biggest issue right now - they promised content that could be handled despite the collective nerfing of many abilities, all in the name of consolidating the trees and adding more interchangeability of the classes (read: bring the player not the class), but instead the content didn't change and now they are playing a really **** poor game of catch up with the classes. The reality didn't turn out the way they seemed to think it would, so while I agree they don't know how something will be until it goes live, Blizzard creates more work for themselves by ******* with the classes as much as they do.

I just hope that Trion sidesteps that vicious cycle and focuses more on the content.
#19 May 28 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
Drama Nerdvana
******
20,674 posts
I just like Rift.

I feel that through homogenization that WOW had lost a lot of the depth that made it fun.


I've been slowly leveling through Rift, only 31 now after 2 months! But I've been enjoying myself, the dungeons are decent, the random world events are a good break from leveling and the questing itself isn't bad at all. Talent trees ftw, whoever made the design choice in WoW to lock you into a tree until you maxed it out needs to be fired.
____________________________
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#20 May 28 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,503 posts
As much as I criticize the devs at Blizz, I feel their biggest flaw is catering to the players and to the $. Once you deviate from your own identity, you become lost and struggle to keep up with demand. Trion is trying to make its stand and stick to a more focused design philosophy, more of a "if you don't like it, get over it" style and I like that. They probably have a file labeled "QQ" where they put all the class balance emails.

Ultimately here's what's gonna hurt the game: the players. We have all been conditioned in the passed few years to play these style MMOs a certain way and you can't reverse that. Its only a mater of time before min/max shows itself, AH becomes predictable, dailies becomes chores, dungeons are sped through, loot wars, name calling, and eventually the mundane takes over and Allakhazam jokes fill the chat block.

Leveling is fun, new, and exciting. But once you get to the cap the luster wears a little. Rift doesn't have a strong enough guild system to keep the game friendly and social. In fact the public groups make the game even less social in my opinion. Can Trion break the MMO cycle? Doubt it. But we can enjoy it for what it is now and hope for the best. /cheers
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (20)