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Need vs Greed = RobberyFollow

#1 May 24 2011 at 8:52 PM Rating: Default
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I am hoping that Trion will address the very flawed need/greed roll system for items in public groups and in warfronts. The current system allows anyone to roll need on items that they can’t even use, and a lot of peeps do, thinking they will get lost in the shuffle and get a free item. Who knew there were so many greedy (needy) people in warfronts? The instant you call them on it (and I always do), they have some smart @$$ response, or usually just don’t care. Sadly, I thought I left all the 14 year old barren chat ninjas back in WoW. Vexingly, a lot of them have found a new home in Rifts.

If they happen to have any moral fiber at all, (and those are few and far between, believe me) they usually respond with a “Well, roll need yourself then, everyone else does.” Or, “it’s a lame green level xxx item, and you are complaining?” The reason I DON’T roll need is because I don’t NEED the item, and there is a possibility that someone else does. Also, unlike what these greedy ninjas claim, most people roll greed on items they can’t use or don’t need, just as they should.

The good news: not that you can do much about it, but if the player happens to be on the same shard as you, you can add him to your ignore list. So far, I’ve not limited out on it (yet), if there is a limit. One of the main reasons I left WoW was because I ran out of room on my ignore list in the first 2 hours, and then had to decide all the time on which complete moron deserved to be on there more.

The bad news: if they are not on your shard, (as is often the case in warfronts) you can’t even put them on ignore. So then after you call them out for being a greedy ninja, you have to listen to them rant about letting them play their own game, yada yada yada…

The fix: the simple fix, while not perfect, would be very easy to implement. Make items that you can’t use (plate for mages, mana pots for rogues, etc.) unable to be rolled need for when dropped in public groups. Every item already has that stetup configured on it anyway, so it wouldn’t be hard to implement. Sure, that will still allow a rogue to roll on a mage dagger (since they can use daggers too), but at least it’s a start. The ideal fix would be to make it impossible to roll on items that you can’t use or that are not intended for your class (like the mage dagger), and make it impossible to roll need on gear you CAN use if it’s not better than what you have on already. That might be trickier to implement, but that would solve a ton of grief over greedy ninja’s, to be sure.

I can already hear the arguments against this request, most likely from the very greedy ninjas that I tell off in raid chat during warfronts, but some might actually post with legitimate reasons. The argument that items can be broken down for runecrafting will come up. Let me say that I am a runecrafter and I still get plenty of items to break down for mats, even without ninja grabbing an item some other class really needs. I also get plenty of cash from quests, pvp, and dungeon runs, so no, no one’s need for cash or items is any greater than everyone elses, no matter how you may think otherwise. “Oh, but maybe peeps will wear less favorable gear in warfronts so they can roll need on the good items.” I say let them. If they have to come to warfronts to get better gear from drops in the first place, they are doing something very wrong. Granted, the occasional nice (blue) item does drop in the warfront, and usually every class that can use it will roll need, whether that item is relevant to their character or not. I can understand that. I’m just tired of people taking advantage of a shabby looting system when other players on the server are getting ripped off of items they may actually NEED.

If you are the flaming troll greedy ninja type, don’t bother to reply. I’ve heard every excuse in the book already, and none of them hold water. If you happen to have a legitimate concern, idea or even complaint about the need/greed system, please do respond. I’d love to hear what other people think about the current need/greed system for public groups/warfronts.
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#2 May 24 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I just think the Need button is prettier than the Greed button.
#3 May 24 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok.. I see what you're saying, and in principle I agree with you.

At the same time, you're really setting yourself up for this.

If everyone is rolling Need on an item, roll Need on it, because it's the only way you're going to get a shot at it. You are only hurting yourself by ignoring this, you're trying to turn yourself into a martyr by yelling "I rolled greed, so everyone else is a thief." When in reality all you're doing is choosing not to get the item in question and making it everyone else's fault.

For myself, when I'm in public groups and warfronts, I just watch what people roll, and if even one of them rolls need on a drop, I roll need on it, because I want a shot at it and that's the only way I'm getting one. I'm not doing anything wrong by doing this, I'm just choosing NOT to ignore how the game works (I'm not talking about the game overall, I'm talking about the "rolling on stuff" game) and I'm choosing NOT to ignore how everyone else is playing that game.
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#4 May 24 2011 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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this is the kind of argument that the people that think they are doing the right thing are actually doing the wrong thing, like driving the speed limit.

why can't you man up and do what the majority of everyone is doing?

in warfronts, most of us click need to get the **** thing off the screen...i don't have time to compare stats when i've got nodes to defend. in rift groups, its pretty much common courtesy and standard rolling...the kicker comes from 2 things:
1. BoEs are need rolls since you can very well buy it from the guy later if you need it that much.
2. BoP planar stuff are need rolls cuz they are usually some container.

dungeons are the only place where ninja looting should have any bearing. if its not an upgrade, you dont need it.

OP, if you have a specific example that doesn't fit into either of these situations i would like to hear it. i don't see any epidemic of ninja looting, nor do i see a design hole.
#5 May 24 2011 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, my intent wasn't to make myself a martyr. In the instances where this has turned ugly, everyone except 1 or 2 peeps rolled greed on items they didn't need, and only the 1 person rolled need on an item they couldn't use. I understand why you are rolling need to get the item - because if everyone else is, it's your only chance to get it too. I understand the concept, but don't agree with it. Two wrongs (or 9 wrongs) don't make a right. Simply, it's the mob mentality: if everyone else is looting and rioting, it's OK for me to do it too. The problem will just perpetuate itself if everyone has the same attitude.

I guess I should have asked a more specific question: do you think it's viable to limit the need roll to items that you can use and make all other items greed only? In addition, why do you think that would work/not work. I'm not bashing your answer, in fact it was a good point of reason and well stated. I simply don't agree with it. Nothing personal and no harm, no foul.

I thought I might share the best (lamest excuse) I've heard so far after confronting a ninja in warfronts: Ninja - "I just wanted to get it off my screen. I'm IN a battle and I just wanted it to get off my screen fast." I responded by asking if their need/greed buttons were set up differently than mine, as they are right next to each other on the screen. The ninja replied " I didn't look, I just clicked one quickly to get it out of the way. I didn't have time to tell them apart." I said, "So, you have probably 20+ very small action bar buttons that you are clicking away on all the time, and can't tell the difference between TWO big buttons on the screen titled need and greed?" Ninja failed to respond...
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#6 May 24 2011 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you're making this a far bigger deal than it is. Not once, even while leveling have I ever seen a WF green that was an upgrade, and if there was it certainly wasn't something to get tissy about losing a roll on.

There isn't really a way to "fix" it, even by locking items to classes, and honestly it doesn't matter. On Lotham, pretty much everyone rolls need in WFs, and the only people who don't are those wh don't feel like even bothering to sell vendor trash. That's how insignificant these items are; people are avoiding rolling on them because it isn't worth the effort to vendor them.
#7 May 25 2011 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen the occasional epic drop in warfronts. Before 1.2, I had seen Minor Catalysts drop from invasion mobs. And people still rolled Greed on them in a sea of Need rolls. Not smart.

I ALWAYS pass on mana pots in warfronts with my rogue. That's just a no brainer. Passing so it can go to a caster helps my team, possibly that match, the vendor value of them is trivial and by the time I get enough to be worth selling on auction, the actual value of them isn't worth the bag space.

Anything else is a Need roll. I don't care if my rogue is rolling plate that is an upgrade for someone. They aren't going to roll Greed on leather that is an upgrade for me. During the beta and shortly after launch, I would check to see if I could use a drop and otherwise roll Greed, and I missed out on virtually everything because all it takes is one guy to roll Need and the whole process is pooched.

Adapt to the situation. Morality doesn't come into play. If losing out on everything for the sake of some self-righteous mandate to be a "decent" person makes you feel better, then do that. Otherwise, do what you need to do to get your fair share of the spoils.
#8 May 25 2011 at 4:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
I think you're making this a far bigger deal than it is. Not once, even while leveling have I ever seen a WF green that was an upgrade, and if there was it certainly wasn't something to get tissy about losing a roll on.

There isn't really a way to "fix" it, even by locking items to classes, and honestly it doesn't matter. On Lotham, pretty much everyone rolls need in WFs, and the only people who don't are those wh don't feel like even bothering to sell vendor trash. That's how insignificant these items are; people are avoiding rolling on them because it isn't worth the effort to vendor them.


What Joph said.

I don't do warfronts, just raids and invasions, but it's kind of the same thing. If I get it, yay! If I don't, who cares? The only time I've ever seen a green upgrade for any of my characters drop, it came off some random mob I was soloing anyway.
#9 May 25 2011 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:

For myself, when I'm in public groups and warfronts, I just watch what people roll, and if even one of them rolls need on a drop, I roll need on it, because I want a shot at it and that's the only way I'm getting one. I'm not doing anything wrong by doing this, I'm just choosing NOT to ignore how the game works (I'm not talking about the game overall, I'm talking about the "rolling on stuff" game) and I'm choosing NOT to ignore how everyone else is playing that game.



This is pretty much what I do as well. You can't count on random strangers to "do the right thing" just because you see the world as hello kitty. Folks will snatch up anything and everything they can, and you will be left behind if you don't take a more aggressive stance. That's just the reality of the situation. Sure it sucks, but it's no different in the real world, either.

The solution to the OP's issue is just roll need. In an open public event there is no reason not to. Heck, those other guys rolling need might not even be contributing as much as I am to the event. *shrugs

It's not really an issue that trion can fix without **** hurting someone or another.
#10 May 25 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Since someone is always looting in the middle of a fight, generally when that need/greed box comes up I'm too busy to stop and see how everyone else is rolling first. Unless it's armor of my class, I just automatically hit greed. Once in a while I'll notice that some tool is needing everything, but mostly I point and laugh at that guy, just like I point and laugh at the people who do rifts in a private group because, oh noes! we can't share our mad loots! If it makes you feel better, needman, you go on and have those 3 healing potions and the green pants three levels below you. Woooahhh Nellie, you sure got the better of us!

I have yet to see anything drop in a public group that's worth raising my blood pressure over.


ETA: The majority of people I've encountered on my shard seem to do the same, judging by the rolls I have paid attention to and the loot I've greeded and won. Needman is pretty rare. I suppose if everyone was needing everything all the time, I'd do that too.

Edited, May 25th 2011 10:43am by teacake
#11 May 25 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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This really isn't something Trion needs to address, or even -can- address.

Its an MMO. People are jerkasses, that will never be fixed so we have to adapt to it. Could Trion make changes to the looting system to make it a little less possible to be a jerkass? Sure, but it won't change much.
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#12 May 25 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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You quit WoW because you ran out of room for ignore list? You must be quite the socialite. In any case, you gotta realize that people act like jocks on this game all the time. "I got most PK's I'm #1" when half the time he probably picked off those who were weakend by others etc. When these egotistical players see an item they feel like they need it so they don't greed roll. It's like in Rift Invasions too, I see it all the time. If it's a BoE world epic or something I am needing on it too, even if it isn't for my class. It's just common sense and also I need to make a profit too.
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#13 May 25 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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Sorry, I agree with the OP and the argument that since everyone is rolling Need then you should just do it too is LAME. The system is built or carried over the way it is for a reason - the problem with everyone rolling Need is some things they really just don't need, and no amount of alt, lack of money or runebreaking is going to change my opinion on that. Whats worse is all the people waiting to see "OMG I'm going to wait to see what the majority of people are doing, then conform or just ninja it."

Trion should just fix the public stuff altogether and make it a restricted type of role as has been suggested already and by the OP OR only 1 type of roll with a pass option so those of us who are trying to do it the right way will stop complaining! ;-)

Later.

Go ahead Trion, change the public loot system to bring up two options: "I'm a greedy *******" and "Pass" then I'll stop complaining because we all have an equal chance and don't lose out because others wait or do it differently.

Edited, May 25th 2011 3:42pm by jocool32
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#14 May 25 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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jocool32 wrote:
Sorry, I agree with the OP and the argument that since everyone is rolling Need then you should just do it too is LAME. The system is built or carried over the way it is for a reason - the problem with everyone rolling Need is some things they really just don't need, and no amount of alt, lack of money or runebreaking is going to change my opinion on that. Whats worse is all the people waiting to see "OMG I'm going to wait to see what the majority of people are doing, then conform or just ninja it."

Trion should just fix the public stuff altogether and make it a restricted type of role as has been suggested already and by the OP OR only 1 type of roll with a pass option so those of us who are trying to do it the right way will stop complaining! ;-)

Later.

Go ahead Trion, change the public loot system to bring up two options: "I'm a greedy *******" and "Pass" then I'll stop complaining because we all have an equal chance and don't lose out because others wait or do it differently.

Edited, May 25th 2011 3:42pm by jocool32


If everyone else is playing the game by one set of rules and YOU are playing by another set, which one of you is wrong?

As for eliminating the Greed roll option, no. For instance when I'm in a dungeon and BoP stuff is dropping that I don't need, I'll roll greed on it because vendoring/runebreaking it still gives me some benefit and I'm not stealing it away from someone who may legitimately need it. BoEs are a little different since the potential benefit from those is substantially more even if you can't equip the item. I won't ninja them, but I won't be ninja'd either, if I see a need roll on a BoE, I roll need
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#15 May 25 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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If everyone else is playing the game by one set of rules and YOU are playing by another set, which one of you is wrong?

As for eliminating the Greed roll option, no. For instance when I'm in a dungeon and BoP stuff is dropping that I don't need, I'll roll greed on it because vendoring/runebreaking it still gives me some benefit and I'm not stealing it away from someone who may legitimately need it. BoEs are a little different since the potential benefit from those is substantially more even if you can't equip the item. I won't ninja them, but I won't be ninja'd either, if I see a need roll on a BoE, I roll need


I agree there still needs to be a 3 loot option system in private or instances type runs (5 mans, raids, slivers, etc.), but the public or RvR stuff could easily be just a 2 option system. If its out in the open public "world" the different options are triggered.

And just for the record, the vast majority of the public players kind of know this isn't acceptable behavior, at least on my shard, so only about 15% - 20% actually still roll need. So I do have some faith in the community.

Later.


Edited, May 25th 2011 5:15pm by jocool32
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#16 May 25 2011 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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My shard mostly rolls need on BoE greens that drop in warfronts and rifts.. and they generally operate by the rules I stated above at all other times.

You just play the game by the rules everyone is using.

On my WoW server (before the LFD system) we rolled Need on every BoE, period, it's just what you did. In fact when the LFD system rolled out, my server developed itself quite a reputation for doing that, because I guess the other servers in our battlegroup weren't operating on that system. Took a while, but eventually they stopped because the majority of other players around didn't like it (not because one man with a cause stomped his feet on a forum)
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#17 May 26 2011 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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I kind of know where the OP is coming from.

But really it doesn't matter. The fact that he "filled his ignore list in 2 hours" seems to indicate a level of intolerance well beyond the norm.

Yes when I see level 25's needing lesser healing potions in a L12 rift it is annoying but nothing I do will change their behaviour. No mechanism can stop them. If the name is memorable enough I may remember they are a complete twonk for a few days. Otherwise how does it hurt?

I've yet to see anything green auction for any real value. I can get potions etc. Frankly I look at it as an unpleasant but unavoidable aspect of any MMO.

I definitely don't want some algorithmn deciding that something isn't an upgrade for me - it might be pretty!

I work on the basis that I need what I need and greed what I don't. And in a low level rift I'll pass. I accept that this means that I miss stuff but I feel happier with myself. Going out and getting upset about it is kind of defeating the point of playing a game. Likewise behaving at odds with my idea of what is fair (ie need everything) wouldn't be me. At the end of the day the loot is such a trivial part of the game and yet it seems to cause so much drama and anguish. I know I've contributed to it in former games but I think you grow out of it.

If for you the game revolves around your gear and how much better you are than the next guy then fine, whatever floats your boat.

Obviously at raid level perspectives change but the OP was addressing public behaviour and most raids have their own distribution systems anyway.

I will continue to kill myself through not hitting the right button or checking the pathing properly far more than I will because I didn't get +2 DEX. Smiley: smile

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#18 May 26 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Default
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Cambile wrote:
do you think it's viable to limit the need roll to items that you can use and make all other items greed only?


No. And I cannot believe this hasn't been brought up already:

Limiting the item to classes that can use it will just lock everybody else out of the roll while they're rolling need (for greed). All it takes is one person to break the chain, and everybody is screwed.

Honestly, EverQuest had the best loot system where everything was actually predetermined by the players instead of the game forcing logic on you. The game cannot tell what is TRULY an upgrade or not. The game cannot tell that you're a warrior that wants to wear chain or leather.

The only viable solution was actually listed here: take the greed option off of BoEs so that you only have two choices: roll or don't roll. The I'll-knowingly-roll-and-lose-anyway option just has no place in an MMO.

Edited, May 26th 2011 9:07am by Sculduggery
#19 May 30 2011 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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In Warfronts you should alway roll "need" I am not saying in Dungeons, or even when Rifting with a Public Group, but in Warfronts you are playing with people from other shards and they just don't care, so half roll need, other half roll greed, those who roll greed always lose out. So just roll "need" on everything in warfronts if you remotely want it.
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#20 Jun 12 2011 at 12:29 AM Rating: Default
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I look at the item and consider what it is. There is one valid point for always rolling on items as need and if it is not usable by your class. Runecrafting mats are always a need for runecrafters and some gear drops the better components. Runecrafting gets expensive and when leveling a runecrafter stuff gets broken. Just my opinion but it may be a valid point.
#21 Jun 12 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
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I always roll need on green items because I "need" plat and/or runecrafting mats. If you are in a warfront with me and some piece of crap green item drops that is actually an upgrade for you, then I hate you, gtfo of my warfront you scrub.
#22 Jun 12 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Default
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Oh yeah and @the OP. I'm so glad you are taking the time during a WARFRONT to check every person who rolled need on something to assess whether they can use it and typing their names out to your ignore list accordingly. You are quite the asset to your team. I just hope you are Guardian.
#23 Jun 12 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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Really I think trion should introduce a new rolling system for Public World Raids and Warfronts, that only gives the choice to roll or pass, because effectively that is what it always boils down to... someone rolls need 1 or 2 times, then everyone that whats crap in their bags rolls need. This system would only be in effect in warfronts and public world raids, like rifts and invasions, and it would help me feel less like an *** when I click need cause 1 or 2 others are and i want a chance to get the planar chaces.
#24 Jun 12 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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TheRocky wrote:
Really I think trion should introduce a new rolling system for Public World Raids and Warfronts, that only gives the choice to roll or pass, because effectively that is what it always boils down to... someone rolls need 1 or 2 times, then everyone that whats crap in their bags rolls need. This system would only be in effect in warfronts and public world raids, like rifts and invasions, and it would help me feel less like an *** when I click need cause 1 or 2 others are and i want a chance to get the planar chaces.


Yeah, that would make a lot more sense.
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#25 Jun 13 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I always roll need on green items because I "need" plat and/or runecrafting mats. If you are in a warfront with me and some piece of crap green item drops that is actually an upgrade for you, then I hate you, gtfo of my warfront you scrub.


Love this guy :)

You can make public drops even easier: either make them RNG or based on looting rights just like vendor trash. IMO drops have no place in warfronts. If they want pvp players to have a fair shake, make a repeatable quest for greens and coin after the warfronts. Same with rifts. Drop the coin and greens after the rift closes so tards aren't looting while you're fighting for the bonus timer.
#26 Jun 13 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Deadcaller wrote:
Runecrafting gets expensive


The I-need-it-for-my-profession argument has always confused me, along with the argument that a person who wants to auction/vendor something has just as much a right to it as someone who can actually wear it. Because, really, are they not teaching vocabulary in schools anymore? We have a word, in the English, that describes a situation in which an item is needed not for itself, but for the purpose of making money. And that word is: greed.

As I've said, I generally don't get too bothered by ninjas, but the lengths they will go to to justify being jerks (not you Deadcaller, I know you're just raising the point for discussion) always amuse me. Overcomplicate it with excuses and justifications all you want, but the definitions of "need" and "greed" are right there in the dictionary, and the guy who needs on everything is, in fact, a tool.
#27 Jun 13 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:

As I've said, I generally don't get too bothered by ninjas, but the lengths they will go to to justify being jerks (not you Deadcaller, I know you're just raising the point for discussion) always amuse me. Overcomplicate it with excuses and justifications all you want, but the definitions of "need" and "greed" are right there in the dictionary, and the guy who needs on everything is, in fact, a tool.


How does that argument hold water for BoE's? If u can purchase that same item in the AH, how can u justify it as Need? Saving one guy some coin is just as greedy as making coin for another guy.

If you would like to make it as fair as possible, both should roll as equals, let RNG determine the fate of the item, and then either player may make an offer for the item if he Needs it so much.
#28 Jun 13 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Sculduggery wrote:
[quote=Cambile]Honestly, EverQuest had the best loot system where everything was actually predetermined by the players instead of the game forcing logic on you. The game cannot tell what is TRULY an upgrade or not. The game cannot tell that you're a warrior that wants to wear chain or leather.


What are you talking about, I think I'm missing something here. EQ originally had an open loot system. That meant anyone could loot kills, no matter who they were or whether they were even in your group or not. Oh the days of camping a spot in PC only to have some ninja following you around, trying to loot your kills behind you while you were still fighting... yeah no thanks.

I for one will always roll greed on anything that isn't gear that would be an upgrade for the character I am on and probably continue lose every roll. Oh well, I'm pretty sure I can live without it, whatever it is.
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#29 Jun 13 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
As I've said, I generally don't get too bothered by ninjas, but the lengths they will go to to justify being jerks (not you Deadcaller, I know you're just raising the point for discussion) always amuse me.

Seems to me that goes both ways. People are spending an awful lot of time complaining about the distribution of vendor trash.

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 1:16am by Allegory
#30 Jun 14 2011 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:

Seems to me that goes both ways. People are spending an awful lot of time complaining about the distribution of vendor trash.


But it's kind of like how you want people to learn to heal as they level up so they have some idea what they're doing at the level cap when their class and the fights are both more complicated. People who learn to have manners with greens will have manners with purples. Which, obviously, MATTER!!!, in all caps and with three exclamation points, because they are PURPLES!!!

Okay, yeah, you're right. Completely fair point. Speaking for myself, this is my third post in this thread. What a waste of time that might be better spent on cookies.
#31 Jun 14 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:
People who learn to have manners with greens will have manners with purples. Which, obviously, MATTER!!!, in all caps and with three exclamation points, because they are PURPLES!!!


you might as well say jay walking eventually leads to murdering babies.

public BoE greens(mid fight) != raid BoP purples(end fight)

i watched the roll thing play out just as expected this morning. invasion in Shimmersand, greens dropped while we were fighting: most people greeded and some passed, no need rolls. later in Whitefall WF, green dropped while we were fighting: most people needed, some passed, and maybe one greeded.

its not an example of morality, its just game mechanics and procedure.

come here with an example of a BoP purple drop that someone snagged and hearthed and we will agree. or a time you think you got hosed because someone took and item for his offspec, then there might be a conversation. or we could even debate the ethics of rolling need when you get less of a stat upgrade than another player.

but rolling greens does not make you a ninja.

#32 Jun 14 2011 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
teacake wrote:
Deadcaller wrote:
Runecrafting gets expensive


As I've said, I generally don't get too bothered by ninjas, but the lengths they will go to to justify being jerks (not you Deadcaller, I know you're just raising the point for discussion) always amuse me. Overcomplicate it with excuses and justifications all you want, but the definitions of "need" and "greed" are right there in the dictionary, and the guy who needs on everything is, in fact, a tool.


Yea, but those "tools" always seem to have all the loot, don't they? How do you compete with them without becoming what you would describe as a "tool" as well? I get that we should all have some integrity and in general I'll do the right thing - but it gets really frustrating when systems encourage this kind of behavior by allowing it at all. In public groups it should be roll or pass regardless of the item, or it should be like other games in which you cannot roll need if the item isn't the correct armor\weapon type for your current class.

But then there are all kinds of arguments about people with their alts, people with their friends, people with their endless ******** over a virtual item in a fantasy land that doesn't exist. Gosh - it's the same in every game.

The whole thing really is a mess - and while I, too, would like to live in Hello Kitty land where everyone gets along and everyone does the right thing by each other...... I have to look out for number 1 as well. That might make me a tool in the game - but those 19 other people in the random public group sure as **** don't have MY back. It's unfortunate, but even in this semi-small community it's a reality.

So tl;dr - I don't consider these folks ninjas. Ninjas are those who take something that was already specifically slated for someone else by mutual agreement. These are just people who don't want to lose out on something that they, too, qualified to get by participating in the public event. It would be a different story if this was an organized thing like a true raid. It's not. Any jackass can come play, and unfortunately that also means any jackass is eligible for loot.
#33 Jun 22 2011 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
OR

Just take out loot from warfronts altogether? I was quite surprised and appalled to see an epic 2h mace pop up in Codex and watch a team full of rogues and 1 warrior roll need on it. I'm a fresh 50, ex WoW player (7 months sober) and thought loot in warfronts was sort of cool till I saw that happen. It's just not right.

What is loot doing in PVP? Pots and gray items I can understand but epic items? Seriously?



Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 12:37pm by Oroborus
#34 Jun 22 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
I see BOP blues and purps drop in warfronts sometimes now at 50, and I see many people not even greed but pass on them. I personally pass on BOP's that are not an upgrade for me, and haven't yet seen one that is. I let it go cause if its an upgrade for some one on my team, then that helps my faction.
I still need on every healing potion & green item that drops, as does most of the team. I still see some martyrs rolling greed on everything and I go "wtf". You are only ******** yourself out of loot to prove a point when no one is listening.
#35JakobeSVT, Posted: Jun 25 2011 at 8:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) sounds like someone needs a cookie. dont cry ~ you can have some treasure too.
#36 Jun 28 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
2 posts
You are missing the big picture. Every Warfront is populated by people from different servers. Any time an item drops, everyone tells themself "it is money in my pocket if I win." Why would I care if you get an upgrade on another server? Your upgrade does nothing for me, my guild, or anyone on my server. Yes, there is a small chance that we may meet again inside another warfront, or that you may be from my server, but it's not likely.
Warfronts are not like dungeon, where everyone has a common interest in you getting an upgrade. Everyone, however need money for items they desire to buy.
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