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Does Ambidextrous (BD) stack with Nimble Fingers (SB)Follow

#1 May 29 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Title pretty much says it all.

Do these two Dex boosts stack? (Giving a total of 30% dex instead of 15%)

If so, would it be worth using Blade Dancer and using Sab as an off-soul, for the soul reason of having this ability?
#2 May 29 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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MegaManRocks wrote:
Title pretty much says it all.

Do these two Dex boosts stack? (Giving a total of 30% dex instead of 15%)

If so, would it be worth using Blade Dancer and using Sab as an off-soul, for the soul reason of having this ability?


Yes, they would stack. Whether or not it would be worthwhile using saboteur as a secondary soul for BD would depend on your gear and whether or not the extra 15% dexterity would translate to more increased damage/crit than you could pick up from other abilities in other souls. Unless you have exceptional gear, 5% crit and 4% increased physical damage from assassin would most likely produce better results.
#3 May 29 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
MegaManRocks wrote:
Title pretty much says it all.

Do these two Dex boosts stack? (Giving a total of 30% dex instead of 15%)

If so, would it be worth using Blade Dancer and using Sab as an off-soul, for the soul reason of having this ability?


Yes, they would stack. Whether or not it would be worthwhile using saboteur as a secondary soul for BD would depend on your gear and whether or not the extra 15% dexterity would translate to more increased damage/crit than you could pick up from other abilities in other souls. Unless you have exceptional gear, 5% crit and 4% increased physical damage from assassin would most likely produce better results.


Yeah, for 15% dex to give you the same benefit as 5% crit, your base dex would need to be ridiculous (over 1000)

Now the AP benefit from 15% additional dex... maybe, I'm not that familiar with how well rogue damage scales with AP, and if it's anything like warrior damage scaling, you'd rather have 5% crit.

EDIT: Also this question would be better asked in the Callings forum, that's really the place for class discussions.

Edited, May 29th 2011 7:02pm by Callinon
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#4 May 29 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Now the AP benefit from 15% additional dex... maybe, I'm not that familiar with how well rogue damage scales with AP, and if it's anything like warrior damage scaling, you'd rather have 5% crit.

It's awful. For physical DPS, crit is king. For spellcasters, crit is still mostly king.

Edited, May 29th 2011 8:55pm by Allegory
#5 May 29 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:

Yeah, for 15% dex to give you the same benefit as 5% crit, your base dex would need to be ridiculous (over 1000)

Now the AP benefit from 15% additional dex... maybe, I'm not that familiar with how well rogue damage scales with AP, and if it's anything like warrior damage scaling, you'd rather have 5% crit.


I'm pretty sure that for rogues, it's 0.75 AP for every point of dexterity. I'd have to double check, but even if it's 1:1 AP:DEX, when you consider that 10 AP is 1 dps it clearly doesn't scale very well.
#6 May 30 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:

Yeah, for 15% dex to give you the same benefit as 5% crit, your base dex would need to be ridiculous (over 1000)

Now the AP benefit from 15% additional dex... maybe, I'm not that familiar with how well rogue damage scales with AP, and if it's anything like warrior damage scaling, you'd rather have 5% crit.


I'm pretty sure that for rogues, it's 0.75 AP for every point of dexterity. I'd have to double check, but even if it's 1:1 AP:DEX, when you consider that 10 AP is 1 dps it clearly doesn't scale very well.


Rogues are currently 0.5 AP per point of DEX.

10 AP = 1 dps is a conversion I haven't heard of before, but no lies that's some terrible scaling if true.

Edited, May 30th 2011 9:22am by Callinon
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#7 May 30 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:

Yeah, for 15% dex to give you the same benefit as 5% crit, your base dex would need to be ridiculous (over 1000)

Now the AP benefit from 15% additional dex... maybe, I'm not that familiar with how well rogue damage scales with AP, and if it's anything like warrior damage scaling, you'd rather have 5% crit.


I'm pretty sure that for rogues, it's 0.75 AP for every point of dexterity. I'd have to double check, but even if it's 1:1 AP:DEX, when you consider that 10 AP is 1 dps it clearly doesn't scale very well.


Rogues are currently 0.5 AP per point of DEX.

10 AP = 1 dps is a conversion I haven't heard of before, but no lies that's some terrible scaling if true.


You can just mouse over your AP stat and it will show you. Basically divide your AP by 10 and you can guess what your AP is doing for your dps without even mousing over it.

Edit: That's also why people are trying to convince Trion to rethink the scaling of the Mega Damage buff from the red orbs in warfronts. 100% increase to AP doesn't really do a lot for a melee. 100% increase to SP for casters can be huge.

Edited, May 30th 2011 11:11am by Aurelius
#8 May 30 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Edit: That's also why people are trying to convince Trion to rethink the scaling of the Mega Damage buff from the red orbs in warfronts.

AP scaling needs to be fixed, not the damage buff. People can't go on stacking crit forever. You can't have T5 content with people sitting at the same base damage they had in T3 content, but now with 50-60% crit chance to make up for it.
#9 May 30 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Edit: That's also why people are trying to convince Trion to rethink the scaling of the Mega Damage buff from the red orbs in warfronts.

AP scaling needs to be fixed, not the damage buff. People can't go on stacking crit forever. You can't have T5 content with people sitting at the same base damage they had in T3 content, but now with 50-60% crit chance to make up for it.


Agreed. Especially as the itemization (particularly for warriors) favors AP heavily, even though the calculations do not.

The AP scaling is what needs to be fixed
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#10 May 30 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
Edit: That's also why people are trying to convince Trion to rethink the scaling of the Mega Damage buff from the red orbs in warfronts.

AP scaling needs to be fixed, not the damage buff. People can't go on stacking crit forever. You can't have T5 content with people sitting at the same base damage they had in T3 content, but now with 50-60% crit chance to make up for it.


They've backed themselves into a corner on that one. When the rogue changes for 1.2 were on the test shard and for some time after they went live, the complaining from rogues that the Backstab change was a nerf (when in reality, it was a buff) was fairly constant. The only way for them to change AP scaling now would be to go back and nerf the damage modifiers on all of our abilities, and trying to sell Joe Average on a tooltip nerf that winds up being a buff when you factor in changes to AP scaling would be pretty rough.

What they end up doing in the long run I can't predict, but what I would expect rather than changing AP scaling would be to change crit scaling and then adjust itemization in future tiers of gear to boost base damage without running crit through the roof. (Or just itemize for AP without ratcheting up the Dexterity.)

From a "progression is fun" standpoint, my issue right now is that I can upgrade the **** out of my gear but the actual increase in performance doesn't really seem all that substantial. I hit prestige rank 2 on my rogue and equipped my rank 2 PvP gear (which in many cases represented an upgrade from mid-40s greens to T1-equivalent epics) and the end result in my damage was ho-hum for the most part. I need another 10k rep with the Codex faction to upgrade my weapons but even then, the translation from upgraded weapons -> on-screen damage isn't that significant.
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