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Raid Rifts in DatabaseFollow

#1 Jul 14 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like to know if you all plan to add Raid Rift and Expert Rift loot tables to the Database. I could envision it as an additional 1-2 tabs under Database > Zones > Raid Rifts (and/or) Expert Rifts similar to who you now have Database > Zones > Instances (5mans). Also is there a plan for full Raids to be listed as such, like GP/GSB/RoS/HK? I know that some of the drops are listed here as an individual item but for those who hate trying to search Xanadu for anything (Zam is much easier and imo more complete) it would be easier if the above were arranged in categories just like 5mans are now. Thanks.
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#2 Jul 18 2011 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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We don't receive data for rifts from Trion, unfortunately, so any type of rift must be entered in manually. Anyone is welcome to create pages for missing rifts and add in information! All of the rifts put in so far are held in our Rift Encounters category. :)
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#3 Jul 18 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.riftpad.com/rifts.html#rr

^ Zam needs to organize it just like that

The death/Life one is the most complete. Fire raid rift is extremely hard, so go figure no loot table on that one. The essences it drops are nothing short of badass...+33 physical crit!

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 10:51am by Puremallace
#4 Jul 18 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We don't receive data for rifts from Trion, unfortunately, so any type of rift must be entered in manually.


Why couldn't it be done exactly like the current Database > Zone > Instances (Raid Rift instead) > Listing of each Raid Rift (exactly like the current 5mans) then using Zam's own log parser along with the drops already listed as an individual item. It wouls "start" as fairly incomplete but grow super fast and would be a great addition to Zam. **** if I knew how to do the code I'd create it myself, lol.
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#5 Jul 18 2011 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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delindsay90210 wrote:
Quote:
We don't receive data for rifts from Trion, unfortunately, so any type of rift must be entered in manually.


Why couldn't it be done exactly like the current Database > Zone > Instances (Raid Rift instead) > Listing of each Raid Rift (exactly like the current 5mans) then using Zam's own log parser along with the drops already listed as an individual item.


As soon as you get into hand-entering and editing data stuff starts to get really complicated and hard to maintain (we used to do everything 100% by hand on the EQ2 site, and trust me when I say it really becomes horrible to maintain). We are wikifying them, though. Hopefully Trion will add them to the data and alleviate the issue :)
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#6 Jul 19 2011 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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As soon as you get into hand-entering and editing data stuff starts to get really complicated and hard to maintain


I thought that was the point or the Zam log parser. Using it removed the work load from you all and placed it in the hands of us folks playing Rift day by day, or am I wrong? What I am more looking for is a "location" in the drop down menu system that is already in place for the log parser to dump the item info to. Is it then possible to add the category of Raid Rifts and the individual Raid Rifts to that category in the drop down menu system under Database > Zones in a manner like the current Instances, Warfronts and Zones are now? I'm starting to understand the page code a little more after seeing ur Zam code and using it for example for my Guild page here on Zam so I'd be wiling to try and add info to the individual Raid Rift pages once they were in the drop down menu.

Please note I only linked my Guild's page here on Zam to show you what I have already figured out how to do with your own coding (yes it's not much but it's something).
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#7 Jul 19 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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delindsay90210 wrote:
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As soon as you get into hand-entering and editing data stuff starts to get really complicated and hard to maintain


What I am more looking for is a "location" in the drop down menu system that is already in place for the log parser to dump the item info to. Is it then possible to add the category of Raid Rifts and the individual Raid Rifts to that category in the drop down menu system under Database > Zones in a manner like the current Instances, Warfronts and Zones are now?


Not at this time.
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#8 Jul 23 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Not at this time.


Quote:
All of the rifts put in so far are held in our Rift Encounters category.


Alright if there is no plan to add Raid Rifts to the already existing Database drop down menu and instead it is planned only to use the blanket category to list them, how then can regular members add drop info to the RR under the category listing? At this time the RR listings you all have do not have any drops listed under them (I know some item drops are listed individually here on Zam) and therefore there is no way to browse and see what a particular RR might drop like you can in the existing Instance Database menu. Xanadu is horribly incomplete and has not updated since Trion buffed the stats on RR drops. The other choice that Puremallace suggested RIFTpad is also terribly incomplete and doesn't even list Earth and Fire RR's. Of all the wonderful info gathered by Zam's own log parser, where does it go since it doesn't seem to actually goto the correct listing, just as an updated individually listed item.

I understand that Trion does not do a data dump to you all like Blizzard does to Wowhead and I thought that's what your parser was supposed to do. So I guess I'm confused as to why drop info even after the parser went live is not getting placed in the proper location (so-and-so RR listed under the current Rift Category). Or am I mistaken and Zam's parser is more to just place map location makers of mining and herbing nodes and npc locations than actual items dropped from certain mobs?

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#9 Jul 23 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to ask one of our Devs to come explain it, as I'm obviously making a mash of it.
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#10 Jul 23 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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At this time, the logs that you can upload only have certain information. As far as difficulty levels go, they weren't in there the last time I checked (though I will look again). Also, it doesn't know if you are in a raid rift versus any other kind of rift. The only possibility is finding a way to differentiate between the mobs' IDs to determine this but that also was not in Trion's mob data last time I looked. It would require someone hand-changing a lot of data on the mobs themselves to differentiate their versions, and I'm not sure how long that would take or if there's even enough information to do it.

Oh, Trion doesn't consider a raid rift to be a zone, so doubtful that it would ever be on a zone page (other than that the mobs that are found in said raid rift will appear where said rift would appear on the map for the zone). It might be possible to add some other kind of page specific to the various rifts, but I think that's more of a wiki type of thing.

That help answer the question?

Edited, Jul 23rd 2011 8:44pm by acprog
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#11 Jul 23 2011 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah so the parser only sees said item as dropping in say "Stillmoor" and can't understand that it dropped from a RR/Expert Rift within that zone, gocha. So from the point of view of the parser the item only dropped in the respective zone and since it was from a chest, not a particular "event", do I have that right? I guess then I would ask is there a way us regular members can help out?

I, for example, know that Deathchain Vambraces happen to drop from Terror of Undeath. When I look up that item here on Zam it shows looted chests in Stillmoor and Luthas Darkblade. Then if I look up Terror of Undeath on your Rift category page could I (or other members) add that as a drop item to that page? I mean I have some spare time if there was a way that members could add drop info manually to the RR's that would at least give people somewhere to go and browse said drops. And I do MANY Raid Rifts every day and would be more than happy to copy down drops and then place them in the correct RR page if I had that ability.
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#12 Jul 23 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pretty much right, save we get the mob and not the zone (we get the zone based on where we know the mob lives). Here's what a loot drop looks like in your log:

 
<Loot> 
  <NPCId>1533166115</NPCId> 
  <InstanceId>9223372043448225669</InstanceId> 
  <LocationMap>world</LocationMap> 
  <LocationX>6984.293945</LocationX> 
  <LocationY>853.404541</LocationY> 
  <LocationZ>1991.312622</LocationZ> 
  <Item>AFF181A40101010101</Item> 
  <Quantity>1</Quantity> 
  <Coin>0</Coin> 
</Loot> 


NPCID is the NPC's ID (we use that to know which zone map to use)
InstanceID is an ID we can't really use at this time due to a few factors (if they add full datetime + shard info to this, it would be useful, otherwise no)
LocationMap is which map it is (World of someInstanceNameHere)
Location(x|y|z) are the coordinates of the drop on the map
ItemID is the ID of the item dropped
Quantity is how many of the item
Coin is if the mob dropped an item and, say, 1 plat 23 gold 45 silver it would be 12345

That's all the info we get from a loot drop.

I'd need to look into a few things before adding would be a good idea. Let me make sure nothing new got added to differentiate an expert v normal v raid version of a mob. They have separate IDs (look up any dungeon boss,) and I'm pretty sure that's why, but it doesn't give info beyond that AFAIK.
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#13 Jul 23 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess then for now I can just look up each item individually (if it's listed here on Zam) and "comment" as to where it drops from (so-and-so Raid Rift or Expert Rift) until there is such a functionality that would better allow automated 'dumps' of the items dropped for non-instanced zones. That ofc still won't allow a Zam member to browse said RR for what it drops but at least they can tell what it's from if they see someone wearing it and look it up as an item here.

Also, how do you guys add that signature, like urs "Irregulos" that shows shard firsts and such?

Edited, Jul 23rd 2011 10:54pm by delindsay90210
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#14 Jul 24 2011 at 3:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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The comments could possibly help at figuring out what's what in the data; we always try to make things as useful and accurate as possible, and any help is much appreciated.

http://rift.zam.com/en/sigtools.html -- signature stuff.
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#15 Jul 24 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Toldja acprog could explain it better :)
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#16 Jul 25 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK, so here's what I've managed to come up with.

1. an expert mob will exist in a non-warfront, non-newbie-instance instance.
2. an expert mob will have a regular counterpart of the exact same name and type (elite) BUT with a different mob_id
3. the expert mob will be higher level than its counterpart
4. the log parser gives me the name of the map (which is either 'World' or the instance the player is in)
5. this is enough info to flag expert mobs in those instances seen by players where both an expert and normal version were seen

So... that's what I did :)

Admins have an expert versus non-expert toggle. If you find one that's wrong, please do let us know. We'll update the list periodically. I hope to have that part automated sometime in the near future, but want to hold off pending more higher-level content in case I guessed wrong on something.

Update 20110728 - I had to temporarily disable the info on zone pages. One of the queries ended up being rather evil. The solution, which I was trying to avoid, involves changing a whole bunch of things on the back end. I'm trying to find a workaround now to avoid that.

Edited, Jul 28th 2011 11:36am by acprog
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#17 Jul 25 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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nice, and I've started commenting on individual item drops if they aren't obvious which RR it drops from.
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