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PvP gear redux, now with Vengeance!Follow

#1 Aug 30 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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#2 Aug 31 2011 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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I was wondering when they would start introducing something like that (Vengeance)...
#3 Sep 01 2011 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent
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In the end it's the strong that will rule over the weak,
Even if everyone has the same damage reduction it will not be as simple as all that, you win based off your skill and no stats will save you from being a bad PvPer.
I welcome the changes, it's who is quickest to adapt to these changes that will win in the end.
=D

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 5:57am by Lobselvith

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 5:57am by Lobselvith
#4 Sep 01 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I support this..
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#5 Sep 01 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobselvith wrote:
In the end it's the strong that will rule over the weak,
Even if everyone has the same damage reduction it will not be as simple as all that, you win based off your skill and no stats will save you from being a bad PvPer.
I welcome the changes, it's who is quickest to adapt to these changes that will win in the end.
=D

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 5:57am by Lobselvith

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 5:57am by Lobselvith


This does make you wonder guys. How many Trion employees picked up a GW2 keyboard at these convention and saw how they handled gear in pvp?

This is one **** of a swerve from the road when it comes to pvp in this genre. It is one of those issues where you know the problem....know the solution, but doing it will **** some people off which is why I never saw it in WoW.

Rank 8 is still better then rank 1 stat wise and they still have access to the Synergy crystals over a rank 1. The biggest complainers about this honestly is pretty shocking.

It is the pve'rs who can give a **** if pve is fair and balanced, but only care that they can skip gearing in Hammerknell and keep their massive dps via Rank 8 pvp gear + Synergy crystal.

These people apparently do not much care that this issue was completely ruining warfronts for people in this game.
#6 Sep 01 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Not to mention PvE being broken if people can gear up for it more easily via PvP. This really seems like a no-brainer solution.
#7 Sep 01 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, and they're raging about it, too. It's cliche at this point. People sense an impending nerf and that's it. They shut down. They don't investigate, they don't consider the full scope of the changes. They don't stop and consider that maybe they were going about things the wrong way to begin with. They just go all emo and rage.

I'll be glad when it's all over. The game needs fewer crybabies.
#8 Sep 01 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
I'll be glad when it's all over. The game needs fewer crybabies.


Yeah, like any game ever has fewer whiners when they all /ragequit.
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#9 Sep 01 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Calthine wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
I'll be glad when it's all over. The game needs fewer crybabies.


Yeah, like any game ever has fewer whiners when they all /ragequit.


inorite? You see the same people month after month and year after year who rage incessantly about this or that but...they still play. They'll leave when the next FotM game comes out and a couple of months later they'll be back raging about that FotM game AND Rift.

I normally keep the Rift official forums open in a tab in my browser so I have quick access to it for news and such but I had to close it today. The forums are unbelievable with the ignorant sniveling right now. It's one thing when the community is in an uproar over a subjective change, but when they've all got their jammies in a wad and they clearly don't even understand what these changes mean for them, it gets out of hand.
#10 Sep 01 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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I think I am living in the twilight zone...people say comments like this:

I'm not at all happy with this. I worked extremely hard playing day in and day out to get rank 8, largely for the purpose of using the gear in raids to help my guild. I don't really think pvp gear should be the best way to get geared.



Basically this guy says. He grinded pvp gear for the sole purpose of easily skipping having to get pve gear and he is mad it changed.........

Lets just say thank god I am banned from the official forums because I can not be as politically correct as the Trion devs because I would go off. Comments like that drive me up a wall with the sheer stupidity.
#11 Sep 01 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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This is certainly doing wonders for my "all PVP'ers are a bunch of immature whiny brats who should gb2HaloAndCOD, no exceptions" worldview :p And yeah, at least this means that I won't have to drive myself to the bottom of a very large bottle of Captain Morgan grinding PVP rank (read: getting stomped into the ground and then ******* at for not healing every single "teammate" to 100% from across the map with one push of the button) to get geared for PVE content.

Warfront-free is the life for me!

/em shuts up now
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#12 Sep 01 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Just read the rest of the forums, then you'll have those preconceptions about pretty much anyone who plays Rift. And if you read some other MMO forums you'll end up feeling the same way about MMO gamers in general.

MMOs are games that invite much larger investments of time, effort and money than other games, so I guess it's only natural that the amount of whining will be proportionally greater.
#13 Sep 01 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, anyone who wants to have discussions instead of yes-man whining parties is welcome here, lol.

Actually, whiners are welcome here too. They just don't tend to stay long, lol.
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#14 Sep 01 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Sakkura1 wrote:
MMOs are games that invite much larger investments of time, effort and money than other games, so I guess it's only natural that the amount of whining will be proportionally greater.


True enough I suppose, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating to go through the class forums looking for guides, build suggestions, and other good stuff like that and find nothing but page after page of the same endless PVP-centered kvetching and e-peen stroking.
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#15 Sep 01 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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RajiFarlander wrote:
Sakkura1 wrote:
MMOs are games that invite much larger investments of time, effort and money than other games, so I guess it's only natural that the amount of whining will be proportionally greater.


True enough I suppose, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating to go through the class forums looking for guides, build suggestions, and other good stuff like that and find nothing but page after page of the same endless PVP-centered kvetching and e-peen stroking.


I had hoped...albeit naively...that the Rift official forums would avoid the general idiocy that became the hallmark of the WoW o-boards. Clearly this hasn't turned out to be the case, which is a shame. So much ignorance driving so much rage can't be contained in such a small space. The universe is in danger.
#16 Sep 01 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
[quote=RajiFarlander]

I had hoped...albeit naively...that the Rift official forums would avoid the general idiocy that became the hallmark of the WoW o-boards. Clearly this hasn't turned out to be the case, which is a shame. So much ignorance driving so much rage can't be contained in such a small space. The universe is in danger.


Trion could avoid this easily by having forum mods that can answer questions or correct mis conceptions, but they never do.

The forums mods are just like Blizzards and they allow people to rage and spread horrible mis information which is just silly.

I was up to 8,000 post there trying to answer questions before I finally got banned for tards saying I was too mean. People post troll post...I call them trolls...I get infracted.

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 4:15pm by Puremallace
#17 Sep 01 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Puremallace wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
[quote=RajiFarlander]

I had hoped...albeit naively...that the Rift official forums would avoid the general idiocy that became the hallmark of the WoW o-boards. Clearly this hasn't turned out to be the case, which is a shame. So much ignorance driving so much rage can't be contained in such a small space. The universe is in danger.


Trion could avoid this easily by having forum mods that can answer questions or correct mis conceptions, but they never do.

The forums mods are just like Blizzards and they allow people to rage and spread horrible mis information which is just silly.

I was up to 8,000 post there trying to answer questions before I finally got banned for tards saying I was too mean. People post troll post...I call them trolls...I get infracted.


Blizzard has gotten themselves in plenty of trouble by having too much dev/mod interaction with the community. Sometimes less is more. Personally, I would like to see more regular "state of the game" kind of posts on the forums, but that's a minor want. But as far as actually having staff navigating the forums and trying to clarify/answer questions...well, let's just say there's no reasoning with a lynch mob. When it comes to necessary changes that impact a very large group of players, the devs are damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. By choosing to not get directly involved on a regular basis with the forum antics, they reduce the likelihood of a dev or mod making a mistake and either giving wrong information, giving unclear information that just serves to rile people up even more, or snapping at the gross imbecility displayed by a lot of posters and responding unprofessionally (it happens.)

No, intelligent people can take the information we're given and figure out how it will really affect their immediate and long-term activities in the game. You can't cure (or heal) stupid and beyond a point, there's no benefit to even trying.
#18 Sep 01 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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hmmz must wisdom there. I do notice devs tend to talk less then they did back in March

I see the Talk of Telara thing. Maybe a Blizzard style Dev Q and A would be nice?
#19 Sep 01 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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While I *do* like the Valor change, I'm not much of a fan of the Vengeance one. (For the record, I'm not a fan of PvP-only stats, be they damage reduction or damage stats) I understand why they did it and I understand why it was necessary. The alternative--balancing the higher tiers by giving them more killing stats and less survival stats--is impossible to balance in any real-world scenario. That, and it would generate a LOT of QQ because high- and low-tier gear would have such similar stat values.
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#20 Sep 02 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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Calthine wrote:
Well, anyone who wants to have discussions instead of yes-man whining parties is welcome here, lol.

Actually, whiners are welcome here too. They just don't tend to stay long, lol.

Well, technically I guess we're actually all whining about whining right now. ;-)
#21 Sep 02 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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emallson wrote:
While I *do* like the Valor change, I'm not much of a fan of the Vengeance one. (For the record, I'm not a fan of PvP-only stats, be they damage reduction or damage stats) I understand why they did it and I understand why it was necessary. The alternative--balancing the higher tiers by giving them more killing stats and less survival stats--is impossible to balance in any real-world scenario. That, and it would generate a LOT of QQ because high- and low-tier gear would have such similar stat values.


Do you know the only way to not be forced to introduce a vengeance stat to this game? Take raids off lock outs and nerf the bosses, but allow them to still drop the same gear.

The people you see on the forums are the biggest bunch of dim wits to ever play mmo's. I still took a 2.7k crit yesterday. I can still dish out major damage as a Warrior and lock down players and have fun.

Only ones who took a hurting was Rogues, but they have to deal with it for what.....20 more days if that and then they will probably be OP and able to stun lock you to death because they are getting buffed in pvp.

It is shocking the number of people who want a auto win gear in pvp, then it is more shocking to see these people say GW2 will be so much different...they realize that game is not decided by gear right?
#22 Sep 02 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Puremallace wrote:
[quote=emallson]
Only ones who took a hurting was Rogues, but they have to deal with it for what.....20 more days if that and then they will probably be OP and able to stun lock you to death because they are getting buffed in pvp.


I'm sharpening my daggers as we speak >:D
#23 Sep 02 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Puremallace wrote:
emallson wrote:
While I *do* like the Valor change, I'm not much of a fan of the Vengeance one. (For the record, I'm not a fan of PvP-only stats, be they damage reduction or damage stats) I understand why they did it and I understand why it was necessary. The alternative--balancing the higher tiers by giving them more killing stats and less survival stats--is impossible to balance in any real-world scenario. That, and it would generate a LOT of QQ because high- and low-tier gear would have such similar stat values.


Do you know the only way to not be forced to introduce a vengeance stat to this game? Take raids off lock outs and nerf the bosses, but allow them to still drop the same gear.

Nerfing raids would reduce the fun of raiding. I don't raid at all atm, but I've done it before and it can be a lot of fun if the raids are hard.

EDIT: By hard I mean mechanically difficult, not 'hard until you outgear them'. A well-built encounter can still wipe people who significantly outgear it.

Ideally you would balance PvP first, then balance PvE around the amount of damage players can do with a given stat total. After that, you'd have the same gear available from both methods of acquisition.
Quote:

The people you see on the forums are the biggest bunch of dim wits to ever play mmo's. I still took a 2.7k crit yesterday. I can still dish out major damage as a Warrior and lock down players and have fun.

I'm not disputing anything like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not QQing. PvP right now is incredibly fun, and was still fun before the addition of Vengeance etc. The reason that I don't like Valor/Vengeance and PvP-only stats is purely aesthetic.
Quote:

Only ones who took a hurting was Rogues, but they have to deal with it for what.....20 more days if that and then they will probably be OP and able to stun lock you to death because they are getting buffed in pvp.

Thus is the cycle of the MMORPG.
Quote:

It is shocking the number of people who want a auto win gear in pvp, then it is more shocking to see these people say GW2 will be so much different...they realize that game is not decided by gear right?

That statement is actually enough to make me interested in GW2. One thing that I love about LoL/HoN/DotA/etc is that they pack fast and fun RPG gameplay into a box that causes the outcome of matches to depend entirely upon player skill.

Would most people still play WoW/Rift/<insert> if there were no gear? Probably not. Would I? Yes, because I enjoy the gameplay.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2011 4:22pm by emallson
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#24 Sep 02 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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emallson wrote:

That statement is actually enough to make me interested in GW2. One thing that I love about LoL/HoN/DotA/etc is that they pack fast and fun RPG gameplay into a box that causes the outcome of matches to depend entirely upon player skill.

Would most people still play WoW/Rift/<insert> if there were no gear? Probably not. Would I? Yes, because I enjoy the gameplay.



Rift seems to be moving there more then I have seen any other MMORPG before. I have said it before this make me wonder if at Gamescon and Pax Rift devs picked up a GW2 keyboard and tried the pvp.

I knew the issue with pvp gear...you knew it. I think we all knew it from launch date. PvP'rs cried it came so fast. What you need a month pts testing to tell you Rank 8 gear can destroy someone in Rank 1 gear? That change came fast as crap after GW2 dropped their pvp demo.

GW2 does have the advantage of releasing with that system of gear standardized from launch. Trion just popped the noobs off the gear nipple and some are reacting harshly like they always do.
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