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Showing stats on your tooltip for Runes - where are they?Follow

#1 Sep 13 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I've seen other sites use a tooltip (apparently from Zam) that show the actual stats of a Rune on the tooltip. Kindly explain to me how to do that?

I ALREADY use your tooltip on my site.

Example: does not show stats of the rune

Shannon
http://www.rift-craft.com

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 12:18pm by RiftCraft
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#2 Sep 13 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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That information has never been included in Trion's data. Trion is aware of it and it's on a to-do list!
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#3 Sep 13 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah good, someone got back to you (just got home).

Alas, Cyliena is right. The Rune stats aren't on the tool tips because they aren't in the database because they are not (yet) in Trion's data. I thought you had a tooltip issue; I coulda answered that one on Twitter :)
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#4 Sep 13 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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so the sites that use your tooltip have added the feature somehow?
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#5 Sep 13 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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RiftCraft wrote:
so the sites that use your tooltip have added the feature somehow?


One would assume so, since they're not getting the stats from our data.
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#6 Sep 13 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this. I've emailed Erick to see what we can do. Those stats are kind of important don'tcha think? Not having them in the feed is a glaring omission that should be fixed asap. It's been months since release with several updates. No excuse for it at all.
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#7 Sep 13 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, we know. Our devs are in pretty constant contact with Rift devs, and they have a list of stuff we'd like. That one's been on there a while.
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#8 Sep 14 2011 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
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I am not trying to denigrate or insult the folks at zam or trion, but don't you guys feel like its time to move on from waiting for trion to fix this and just either let users fix these problems or fix them internally? I mean I think its clear that trion has much more important things they are working on, in terms of content and development of the actual game. I feel like this is something users or zam could have fixed ages ago and it was just put on hold for some reason.
#9 Sep 14 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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pquegg wrote:
I am not trying to denigrate or insult the folks at zam or trion, but don't you guys feel like its time to move on from waiting for trion to fix this and just either let users fix these problems or fix them internally? I mean I think its clear that trion has much more important things they are working on, in terms of content and development of the actual game. I feel like this is something users or zam could have fixed ages ago and it was just put on hold for some reason.


Imagine how folks would feel if they spent the next 2 months manually entering bits and snippets of data and be oh-so-close to being done and then...zap...everything gets sorted with the dumps from Trion and all that work is flushed away in a solitary burst of automated bliss. Maybe there is a line and maybe we're on the side of it that says to just do it manually. I dunno.

Honestly, Rift has never struck me as one of those games that really needs an online database for anything other than lore-junkies and the good folks who play solo or in small groups with little/no community interaction. MMOs just aren't what they were a decade ago when it was pretty much a given that if you played an MMO, you also had your favorite web-based database bookmarked for quick reference on a regular basis. Not saying a database for Rift is useless, but...we only need so many of them and they only need so much information.
#10 Sep 14 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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I'm wondering if there's a more long term issue that's being addressed in the process. Yes, this information can be fixed with manual entries, but wasn't this problem not just with runes but with other things as well?
#11 Sep 14 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
I'm wondering if there's a more long term issue that's being addressed in the process. Yes, this information can be fixed with manual entries, but wasn't this problem not just with runes but with other things as well?


THIS, there is a a huge list of items with tooltip data errors or just don't show anything at all. Many of sites have fixed this manually because they got tired of waiting. And please months to fix maybe 200 runes? I would think maybe a few hours tops, now recipes and many of the other things bugged like the class greater sourcestones that could take a bit longer.
#12 Sep 14 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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pquegg wrote:
[...]

many of the other things bugged like the class greater sourcestones that could take a bit longer.


The wha?

Are you talking about these or something else?
#13 Sep 14 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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pquegg wrote:
Ravashack wrote:
I'm wondering if there's a more long term issue that's being addressed in the process. Yes, this information can be fixed with manual entries, but wasn't this problem not just with runes but with other things as well?


THIS, there is a a huge list of items with tooltip data errors or just don't show anything at all. Many of sites have fixed this manually because they got tired of waiting. And please months to fix maybe 200 runes? I would think maybe a few hours tops, now recipes and many of the other things bugged like the class greater sourcestones that could take a bit longer.


If that's your deal and what you like to do, knock yourself out. I personally don't use databases for games like Rift beyond instance/raid boss drops and maybe reading a bit of lore. Everything else is visible in-game.

How much of wowhead's database was data mined or entered by players? But Trion feeds fansites data dumps that make keeping their databases updated a largely automated process and would-be fan site operates come here talking smack about Trion for not making it easy enough? **** off. Half the fansites you see are set up by fly-by-night folks just looking at what happened with WoWHead and Tankspot and they're trying to position themselves to cash in. "amfg wtf I've got a fan site that I actually have to WORK at to earn an income zomfg."
#14 Sep 14 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Our devs talk to Trion's devs a lot, and they have our wishlist. They are constantly improving the data. For example: JUST finished... automated merchant parsing! No more hand-entering of data for merchants and their inventories. It's all there, automagically. And yes, all that work players and CM's did going from merchant to merchant and hand-entering all their wares, all that work y'all did reporting erroneous entries and the work I did correcting them, MONTHS work of work... wiped.

Another improvement: subzones (they call them scenes) are all in the zones database and showing their parent zones.

The data has come a long way since launch and three unconnected databases (mobs, items, quests). Games aren't designed with data feeds in mind. They just aren't. They're designed and then someone goes "Oh, we should make this available" and some poor engineer has to go reverse the process to create parsable data. Having talked to several devs on the game side of this process, it's not easy and it's very time consuming. At some point there's a call of "What do we spend our development time/money on?" Game content always wins (and it should).

Meanwhile, we are most definitely watching for the !#$%$%^@ rune stats and will implement them when they show up, promise :)
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#15 Sep 15 2011 at 1:28 AM Rating: Good
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Ravashack wrote:
pquegg wrote:
[...]

many of the other things bugged like the class greater sourcestones that could take a bit longer.


The wha?

Are you talking about these or something else?


Hmm strange, I could have sworn those do not work when linked from other sites, maybe that is a different issue all together.

Aurelius wrote:
If that's your deal and what you like to do, knock yourself out. I personally don't use databases for games like Rift beyond instance/raid boss drops and maybe reading a bit of lore. Everything else is visible in-game.


The main reason I would love to have these tooltips working is so I can use them with my guild to make guides for people that would like to know what runes are good for what, not having tooltips limits folks ability to do things easily and in turn makes me just not bother using zam at all.

I am sorry you feel like its your way or the highway on this, all I am asking for is a reason, and I have gotten one now.

Aurelius wrote:
How much of wowhead's database was data mined or entered by players? But Trion feeds fansites data dumps that make keeping their databases updated a largely automated process and would-be fan site operates come here talking smack about Trion for not making it easy enough? @#%^ off. Half the fansites you see are set up by fly-by-night folks just looking at what happened with WoWHead and Tankspot and they're trying to position themselves to cash in. "amfg wtf I've got a fan site that I actually have to WORK at to earn an income zomfg."


Do I work for another fansite? Am I promoting another fansite? If you feel the need to alienate the folks that have been trying to help, grats. I am not sure why you felt the need to say this, obviously I was making a point that other sites have manually input the data for these things already, not that Trion or Zam is a failure for not making these work.

Calthine wrote:
Our devs talk to Trion's devs a lot, and they have our wishlist. They are constantly improving the data. For example: JUST finished... automated merchant parsing! No more hand-entering of data for merchants and their inventories. It's all there, automagically. And yes, all that work players and CM's did going from merchant to merchant and hand-entering all their wares, all that work y'all did reporting erroneous entries and the work I did correcting them, MONTHS work of work... wiped.


I did a lot of that work and honestly thank god they changed it, it makes much more sense to do it automated like it is now. It makes me wonder why it was not like that from the start :)

Calthine wrote:
The data has come a long way since launch and three unconnected databases (mobs, items, quests). Games aren't designed with data feeds in mind. They just aren't. They're designed and then someone goes "Oh, we should make this available" and some poor engineer has to go reverse the process to create parsable data. Having talked to several devs on the game side of this process, it's not easy and it's very time consuming. At some point there's a call of "What do we spend our development time/money on?" Game content always wins (and it should).


I think I said this in my first post in this thread, obviously they are not in this to make a database of the items/mobs/places/whathaveyou in a game, they are making a game. You guys are the ones who are in it to make a functioning easy to use database or do I have that wrong?

Calthine wrote:
Meanwhile, we are most definitely watching for the !#$%$%^@ rune stats and will implement them when they show up, promise :)


Thank you I never doubted that you guys would be on it as soon as you could get it, I was just curious as to the reason you have not allowed for greater input from members to help fix some of these things.

Thank you for your answers on this though. Gunna go back to messing with PA's on the pts now :P 1 Tier down 5 to go :P

Edited, Sep 15th 2011 12:28am by pquegg
#16 Sep 15 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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pquegg wrote:
The main reason I would love to have these tooltips working is so I can use them with my guild to make guides for people that would like to know what runes are good for what, not having tooltips limits folks ability to do things easily and in turn makes me just not bother using zam at all.

I am sorry you feel like its your way or the highway on this, all I am asking for is a reason, and I have gotten one now.


I recall my statement to you was that if your thing is manually updating databases, more power to you. My comment about fansite operators coming here and talking smack about Trion because the devs, who are already going above and beyond with the data dumps, are demonstrating inexcusable behavior for not including this was not, however, directed at you, and nobody with reading comprehension skills beyond about the middleschool level would have thought I was.

So get down off the indignant high horse and go back to writing guides for bads.
#17 Sep 15 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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kk, let me try and find just the bits I want to respond too, lol.

pquegg wrote:
I did a lot of that work and honestly thank god they changed it, it makes much more sense to do it automated like it is now. It makes me wonder why it was not like that from the start :)

Okay :) Why didn't they do it like that from the start? No one thought of it, probably. Then someone thought of it, and we asked, and then things got to where we could do that.

pquegg wrote:
I think I said this in my first post in this thread, obviously they are not in this to make a database of the items/mobs/places/whathaveyou in a game, they are making a game. You guys are the ones who are in it to make a functioning easy to use database or do I have that wrong?

Are we the ones that make it function? Yep, it's just a steaming pile of data, and our devs have to make it jump trough hoops and look pretty. Sometimes, like at the beginning where there were no connections between mobs and items, we're missing the hoops. And the leapers and the cute little circus tubs they stand on.

pquegg wrote:
I was just curious as to the reason you have not allowed for greater input from members to help fix some of these things.

Why don't we set it up so users can just enter it? Well, first off, you get a lot of bad data. Look at all the mis-entered merchant and drop info that people reported. We've even had people edit their logs to spoof data, which is just appalling. Second, we have to develop the means to do that, and then later develop a way to automate it when the data comes from Trion. It's a double time-whammy on our devs who are already extremely busy. (Example, for which I might get my hand slapped, all our ZAM devs but one are working on two new ZAM game sites. The remaining one is taking care of ALL the other ZAM sites single-handedly.)

pquegg wrote:
Thank you for your answers on this though. Gunna go back to messing with PA's on the pts now :P 1 Tier down 5 to go :P

You're most welcome :) We appreciate y'all, you know. Remember to edit/add to the wiki!
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