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Stats Weight - Gear Rating/Score addonFollow

#1 Dec 14 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
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I'm creating a Gear Score addon and I need to define the stats weight for every combination of Calling + Role, here's an example:

Cleric (Healer)
  • Wisdom: 100
  • Intelligence: 90
  • Spell Power: 85
  • Spell Crit.: 80
  • Max Mana: 80
  • Mana Regen: 70

Cleric (DPS)
  • Wisdom: 100
  • Intelligence: 95
  • Spell Power: 90
  • Spell Crit.: 85
  • Max Mana: 70
  • Mana Regen: 70

Cleric (Tanker)
  • Wisdom: ??
  • Intelligence: ??
  • Spell Power: ??
  • Spell Crit.: ??
  • Max Mana: ??
  • Mana Regen: ??


The addon is ready (I'm using it with my Cleric Healer now), I just need to define the weight table every other combination.

I created a chart on Google Docs so you guys can help me: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjX4xl141VUTdEVxVVhCOGluamZNNW01ZWVNY25ucFE

Currently, I can consider the following stats: "block", "critAttack", "critSpell", "dexterity", "dodge", "endurance", "energyMax", "energyRegen", "focus", "hit", "intelligence", "manaMax", "manaRegen", "movement", "parry", "powerAttack", "powerMax", "powerRegen", "powerSpell", "resistAir", "resistDeath", "resistEarth", "resistFire", "resistLife", "resistWater", "stealth", "stealthDetect", "strength" and "wisdom".

Do you guys know where I can find these weight tables or, maybe you guys can help me to define the the weight for every combination of Calling (Warrior, Cleric, Rogue and Mage) + Role (DPS, Healer, Tanker and Support)?

And yeah, at this first moment i will not differ ranged DPS from melee DPS.

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 12:53pm by tiutalk

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 12:58pm by tiutalk

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 1:20pm by tiutalk

Edited, Dec 14th 2011 1:29pm by tiutalk
#2 Dec 14 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Just so you know if you were in my guild I would kick you for even remotely thinking this is a good idea. Anyone I find who is using this I will treat like a pile of ****.

It ruined the community in WoW. What makes you think it will do any different in Rift?
#3 Dec 14 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Puremallace wrote:
Just so you know if you were in my guild I would kick you for even remotely thinking this is a good idea. Anyone I find who is using this I will treat like a pile of ****.

It ruined the community in WoW. What makes you think it will do any different in Rift?


To be fair, it isn't EXACTLY the same thing. But this is still a monumentally bad idea
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#4 Dec 14 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
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Puremallace wrote:
Just so you know if you were in my guild I would kick you for even remotely thinking this is a good idea. Anyone I find who is using this I will treat like a pile of ****.

It ruined the community in WoW. What makes you think it will do any different in Rift?


Sorry but I don't understand your hostility...

I don't want to crate an addon to ruin the Rift Comunity, I just want to create something that might help non-hardcore players to understand wich equipment is better.

Based on what I could learn from Rift API it's not possible to calculate other players GS, so you can't use this as a barrier or something like that.

And btw, i'm glad i'm not in your guild.
#5 Dec 14 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some people have had really negative experiences with some of the playstyles addons seem to foster. Don't let it deter your creativity, as the proof will be in how people use it, not how people abused addons in other games.

Have you posted on our sister site, http://www.riftui.com/ ?
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#6 Dec 14 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
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tiutalk wrote:
I don't want to crate an addon to ruin the Rift Comunity, I just want to create something that might help non-hardcore players to understand wich equipment is better.

Based on what I could learn from Rift API it's not possible to calculate other players GS, so you can't use this as a barrier or something like that.


personally, id probably kick u from guild for thinking of this one myself. i still remember the carnage it wreaked on my server in WoW. everywhere u wanted to go, u NEEDED so much gearscore. ill tell you right now, skill>gear. i cant tell u how many times i beat out ppl with better gear on my shadow priest in WoW for dps, and now, i seem to be doing the same thing in rift. and b4 u say anything, identical specs.
#7 Dec 14 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

personally, id probably kick u from guild for thinking of this one myself. i still remember the carnage it wreaked on my server in WoW. everywhere u wanted to go, u NEEDED so much gearscore. ill tell you right now, skill>gear. i cant tell u how many times i beat out ppl with better gear on my shadow priest in WoW for dps, and now, i seem to be doing the same thing in rift. and b4 u say anything, identical specs.


So basically I must stop my work because you're such a badass hardcore PVPer with super skills and crappy gear?

If that's the way you protect "Rift Community", keep the good work.

If u do not have something usefull to say, do not try to shrink other's work. ;)
#8 Dec 14 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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tiutalk wrote:
Quote:

personally, id probably kick u from guild for thinking of this one myself. i still remember the carnage it wreaked on my server in WoW. everywhere u wanted to go, u NEEDED so much gearscore. ill tell you right now, skill>gear. i cant tell u how many times i beat out ppl with better gear on my shadow priest in WoW for dps, and now, i seem to be doing the same thing in rift. and b4 u say anything, identical specs.


So basically I must stop my work because you're such a badass hardcore PVPer with super skills and crappy gear?

If that's the way you protect "Rift Community", keep the good work.

If u do not have something usefull to say, do not try to shrink other's work. ;)


Nobody said you had to stop your work, but you might consider for a moment the reaction you're getting here from a very small sample of players as you continue with your project. Most Rift players (many of them previously WoW players) are not likely to respond positively to a mod like this

Also, it isn't necessary to turn this into a name-calling fest over skill vs gear.
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#9 Dec 15 2011 at 1:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Y'all are welcome to disagree, but kindly keep it civil.
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#10 Dec 16 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gear score, and anything resembling it, was at the heart of virtually every argument against Trion's decision to support addons for Rift. (DPS meters as well.) People don't want to be evaluated based on their gear. It's akin to racial profiling.
#11 Dec 17 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Calthine wrote:
Some people have had really negative experiences with some of the playstyles addons seem to foster. Don't let it deter your creativity, as the proof will be in how people use it, not how people abused addons in other games.

Have you posted on our sister site, http://www.riftui.com/ ?


Addons ok...This one particular add on is the reason why Aion never saw them and why TOR probably never will. It is the pinnacle of elitism and people have zero historical reference for where it came from,.

Gear score was a f'n joke created by a guild website that got out of hand. It was one of the PRIMARY reasons I dropped WoW in sept 11' when it first popped up. I believed Blizzard would not allow it and ban on the spot for it.

It reduced a player to a number and did not remotely account for skill. I saw what it did to the community in WoW and if you bring it to Rift expect EXTREMELY heavy push back.

If Trion allows this addon then I am gone. It will never happen as long as I play.

Edited, Dec 17th 2011 3:31pm by Puremallace
#12 Dec 17 2011 at 11:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Funny, I feel the same way about DKP. Pretty much hasn't stopped anyone.
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#13 Dec 17 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Calthine wrote:
Funny, I feel the same way about DKP. Pretty much hasn't stopped anyone.


DKP is a guild specific tool and yes I have left guilds the minute they started playing the popularity contest or silly lottery system. DKP is only made for hardcore guilds to ensure progression and I have seen guilds that advertise as casual try and do it and fail every time.

"You mean we are casual, but if I do not show up I will not get loot?"

Addons like gear score catch on like a virus and infect mmo's. WoW was the perfect tri fecta of a degrading community, heavily dependent on addons, and instant gratification taken to the max.

It started with "LFM Onyxia Lair link achievement" <--this started after they re-released Onyxia right before ICC. All of a sudden it just showed up..then people started saying in vent "hey I can click on a person and see a number invite that person there number is high"

Then it became "yeah we have grouped before, but your number is low so you got to go". Nevermind they grouped before and that person was good dps. People stopped talking and grouping and then it got real bad.



Edited, Dec 18th 2011 12:33am by Puremallace
#14 Dec 18 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Trion can't stop the kind of addons the OP is recommending. If you're going to pull your support of Trion simply because of what other people are doing with the API, that's your thing. Just don't expect them to jump in and break the addon because...well, they can't.

My issue with the addon the OP is proposing is that it's superficial, the weighting is arbitrary, and it has no target audience. It's not going to help new players because it would be giving them bad information. It's not going to help veteran players because they already know what the addon is going to tell them.

And for the love of Pete, it's 'tank', not 'tanker'. They soak hits, not carry crude oil.

In order to be accurate (and therefore relevant and meaningful), the addon would have to go much more in-depth in terms of the theorycrafting end of things and would have to take into consideration a lot more than simply the generic assignment of arbitrary weights to stats based on role. It would have to consider hard and soft caps on stats, facets of a given build that would define stat priorites (ie. crit <> AP/SP), hit and focus relative to content, etc., etc. For example, the OP lists the "tanker" without mention of toughness or endurance.

Bad enough to have a gear score addon in the first place (though largely inevitable) but a gear score addon written by a novice... Well, let's just hope the community at large is more discerning than to allow it to take hold. WoW's gearscore was primarily a measure of item level (thus all of the arguments that tanks could equip caster cloth to beat gear score checks if it was high enough iLvl, rendering the addon flawed and potentially useless). If a person is to bypass iLvl/equivalent considerations and try to assign a score based on stat weights + stat values, those weights have to be objective and bang-on or the addon is crap.
#15 Dec 18 2011 at 10:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:

And for the love of Pete, it's 'tank', not 'tanker'. They soak hits, not carry crude oil.


****, now there is soda all over another keyboard.
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#16 Dec 19 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I know that the OP used the same name as that other addon but from his description a few posts down ("I don't want to crate an addon to ruin the Rift Comunity, I just want to create something that might help non-hardcore players to understand wich equipment is better.") it seems like he is trying to make something more like WoW's RatingBuster (http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/rating-buster), which is a fantastic addon that I've used for years.

IF this addon is like RatingBuster, which simply shows the values for stats to help you decide which item is better, then I'm all for it. IF this item is like ye olde GearScore, which transmits and calculates a numeric value for your gear to epeen with, then I'm with Puremallice.
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#17 Dec 19 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe, that isn't what RatingBuster does though.. RatingBuster's primary function was to translate combat ratings into numbers that real people can understand (how much crit is 351 crit rating worth?) hence the name.. it busts ratings Smiley: smile

His description of this seems more like he wants to score each piece of gear based upon arbitrary stat weights
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